The myth of Roberto Duran being an exciting fighter

[StarshipTrooper]

I don't really agree....

People do have a right to freedom of speech.

The way I do it is, if you at least come to explain where you are coming from.. even if it is against popular belief or general consensus, if you at least give effort to explain your side, where you are coming from, and why you feel the way you feel.. then I think you have the right.

If he came out and said:

Title: Duran is boring

Body: Why would anyone watch this guy? He sucks and is boring bwahahaha

That kind of crap should be taken down...

My point is the entire purpose of the thread is to piss people off. If he came right out with his prior blatant crap he knows it would disappear right quick. Now he's trying to do it while being subtle. I'm not so old that I've lost my ability to analyse text and ferret out the subtlties :geek9:

Poet

[Steak]

People misrepresent Duran as a fighter. for some reason they think of him as a brawler or something...but in reality, his style was based off of countering the opponent.

he did something I like to call 'being patiently aggressive'. forcing the fighter back or getting into their punching range to tempt them to throw a punch, and then countering them when they bit.

his infighting style wasnt quite like a classic infighter like Chavez, but he has a smart one. when Chavez got on the inside, he went to town on you, he could rack up damage FAST with his combinations and overall infighting expertise. Duran on the other hand was a little more methodical: he didnt beat you up really fast on the inside most the time since he did some grabbing, but on the other hand he was near impossible to match on the inside. he slowly would make dents in you, so that when his harder counters came they hurt so much worse.

Duran used infighting strategically: it wasnt his main style when he wanted to cause damage. but he knew how to hurt the opponent while barely getting hit himself. Chavez was a totally different style who smelled blood when he got on the inside. Theyre just two different ways of looking at infighting, they were both effective and neither is necessarily better than the other.

still, I wouldnt call Duran boring. his fights with DeJesus, Ishamatsu, Palomino, Kobayashi, Barkley, Moore, and first Leonard fight were all great to watch.

[carlos slim]

all i know is duran buchanan is one of the most boring fights eva when i finally watched it last year....they act like it was a special nite....i also saw a few of durans black n white fights on espn classic i remember one against the jap = super boring....fight against hagler = boring....getting knocked out like pancake boy against hearns = classic....getting styled on by leonard = classic....

[Scott9945]

all i know is duran buchanan is one of the most boring fights eva when i finally watched it last year....they act like it was a special nite....i also saw a few of durans black n white fights on espn classic i remember one against the jap = super boring....fight against hagler = boring....getting knocked out like pancake boy against hearns = classic....getting styled on by leonard = classic....

Your problem is that you don't know how to watch a boxing match. And Leonard took a lot of punishment in their first fight, which you conveniently chose to be blind to.

[BennyST]

I think his first fight with Viruet is an absolute LW classic. It's against a first rate spoiler/boxer and yet is fascinating to watch. It was a great fight. He was too skilled to have the Chacon/Gatti like fights but I can't think of a fight of his that wasn't entertaining and there are many of his fights that are truly brilliant. I don't think he was a fighter that people consider a Gatti exciting fighter though as he wasn't flawed enough, didn't get hit enough or was never really hurt bad apart from against Hearns.

I don't know how you can't like Leonard I? It was one of the greatest fights of all time and I don't think you can see another fight that is fought at such pace and such ferocity for a full fifteen rounds at the highest possible skill level.

Also, when does he hold? I don't seem to remember him holding. He works off the inside non stop, using it to counter etc. His De Jesus fights are classics as are the Thompson, Lampkin and Fernandez fights.

I guess it comes down to opinion. I don't know what more you could ask for though; A highly aggressive fighter with incredible skill. The Viruet fights (especially the first one is brilliant for example but it's gone from Utube I think). Have you seen that one?

Unlike Jones etc, he wasn't into showboating when an opponent was not good enough to do anything. If he was against someone like Lacy, instead of taking the full route to a boring decision, he would take him out with aggression and offense. Maybe you find showboating exciting but I think most would rather a fighter do what he does best to someone that's not good enough to beat him and that is break him down and knock him out. His later fights get more exciting, as happens with most greats because he was fighting much bigger, younger, prime fighters at an age that meant he was hit more and wasn't able to simply take them apart without such ferocious skill without getting hit himself.

Fights like Barkley, Simms, Moore (one sided as it was), Hagler, Luigi Minchillo, Cuevas, among others, are all great exciting fights.

I still don't believe that anyone thinks of him as a Gatti-esque/Chacon like exciting fighter though.

[BennyST]

People misrepresent Duran as a fighter. for some reason they think of him as a brawler or something...but in reality, his style was based off of countering the opponent.

he did something I like to call 'being patiently aggressive'. forcing the fighter back or getting into their punching range to tempt them to throw a punch, and then countering them when they bit.

his infighting style wasnt quite like a classic infighter like Chavez, but he has a smart one. when Chavez got on the inside, he went to town on you, he could rack up damage FAST with his combinations and overall infighting expertise. Duran on the other hand was a little more methodical: he didnt beat you up really fast on the inside most the time since he did some grabbing, but on the other hand he was near impossible to match on the inside. he slowly would make dents in you, so that when his harder counters came they hurt so much worse.

Duran used infighting strategically: it wasnt his main style when he wanted to cause damage. but he knew how to hurt the opponent while barely getting hit himself. Chavez was a totally different style who smelled blood when he got on the inside. Theyre just two different ways of looking at infighting, they were both effective and neither is necessarily better than the other.

still, I wouldnt call Duran boring. his fights with DeJesus, Ishamatsu, Palomino, Kobayashi, Barkley, Moore, and first Leonard fight were all great to watch.

Yep. This sums it up perfectly. People think of him as a very different fighter than he actually was. If you expect a Gatti brawl, then you're going to miss it and be very disappointed of course.

[Carlsson]

I don't really agree....

People do have a right to freedom of speech.

The way I do it is, if you at least come to explain where you are coming from.. even if it is against popular belief or general consensus, if you at least give effort to explain your side, where you are coming from, and why you feel the way you feel.. then I think you have the right.


If he came out and said:

Title: Duran is boring

Body: Why would anyone watch this guy? He sucks and is boring bwahahaha



That kind of crap should be taken down...

Edit: not that i agree with TS in anyway, i find Duran exciting and skilled. I just dont think is entitled to his opinion. I dont think he would write +20 lines in a post expressing his opinion just to piss people off...

[BattlingNelson]

Yes..

You should see BatTheMan's 25 paragraph thread of Roy Jones being the biggest ducker ever...

But he listed all the fighters, and why he felt Roy ducked them...

As long as he was willing to explain himself... then he has that right..

It wasn't really about ducking in the sense as in Haye ducking the klits or others. It was really just a list of contenders that Jones did not fight and objectively as such. There might have been various reasons as to why the fights never happened, but I'm not that familiar with all the circumstances surrounding all those match-ups that never was.

If I remember correctly I did use the word 'duck' in exclamation marks (?).

[Toney616]

My fav fights with Duran has to be the Barkley and Hagler fights. Fights were he was very past prime

[prinzemanspopa]

I think his first fight with Viruet is an absolute LW classic. It's against a first rate spoiler/boxer and yet is fascinating to watch. It was a great fight. He was too skilled to have the Chacon/Gatti like fights but I can't think of a fight of his that wasn't entertaining and there are many of his fights that are truly brilliant. I don't think he was a fighter that people consider a Gatti exciting fighter though as he wasn't flawed enough, didn't get hit enough or was never really hurt bad apart from against Hearns.

I don't know how you can't like Leonard I? It was one of the greatest fights of all time and I don't think you can see another fight that is fought at such pace and such ferocity for a full fifteen rounds at the highest possible skill level.

Also, when does he hold? I don't seem to remember him holding. He works off the inside non stop, using it to counter etc. His De Jesus fights are classics as are the Thompson, Lampkin and Fernandez fights.

I guess it comes down to opinion. I don't know what more you could ask for though; A highly aggressive fighter with incredible skill. The Viruet fights (especially the first one is brilliant for example but it's gone from Utube I think). Have you seen that one?

Unlike Jones etc, he wasn't into showboating when an opponent was not good enough to do anything. If he was against someone like Lacy, instead of taking the full route to a boring decision, he would take him out with aggression and offense. Maybe you find showboating exciting but I think most would rather a fighter do what he does best to someone that's not good enough to beat him and that is break him down and knock him out. His later fights get more exciting, as happens with most greats because he was fighting much bigger, younger, prime fighters at an age that meant he was hit more and wasn't able to simply take them apart without such ferocious skill without getting hit himself.

Fights like Barkley, Simms, Moore (one sided as it was), Hagler, Luigi Minchillo, Cuevas, among others, are all great exciting fights.

I still don't believe that anyone thinks of him as a Gatti-esque/Chacon like exciting fighter though.

The first Duran-Viruet was certainly fought at a much faster pace than their rematch,I'll give you that.The commentators(Chuck Wepner and some other guy) seemed to share your opinion of how great a fight it was,although I didn't see it myself.It's not a fight in which I thought Duran showed much skill in,either.He deserved the decision,but he was very reckless against Viruet and was caught quite often as he was charging in by Viruet.



You've never seen him hold in fights? Never seen him lock an opponent's arm up close? Seemed that's all he did for 15 rounds against Wilfred Benitez - absolute stinker of a fight that was.These clinches were happening often back when he was a lightweight,too.Seems it was done more so against the fast speedy types than the slower,more stationary heavy guys.



I guess what I'm looking for is simply clean,consistent,decisive punching.The type of punching that's easy to follow,with no overly smothered work to kill a fights.And this isn't me being biased against Duran a fighters inside work.If it's clean,if it's consistent,and if there's enough punching room - I've got no problem.I already complimented Duran's work in his fight with Davey Moore.



And honestly,benny,did you really find Duran-Hagler to be an exciting fight? I know it's all about opinions here,but I just don't understand that one at all.

Poop is just testing the waters with me as we have argued about Duran many times.

You always think the worst of me,mate.I assure you this thread has absolutely nothing to do with me pushing my luck or trying to be a smart arse.I simply thought it would make an interesting debate and I wanted other's opinions on it.


You're more than welcome to join in,my man.