Larry Holmes was he really over the hill vs Tyson

[Sugarj]

The gap between the Spinks fight and when Holmes started training again was only like 1.5 years. There are plenty of guys who've come back from that kind of a layoff and still been successful at a high level. There have been plenty of champions with activity levels that are only slightly better than that. I don't buy that he was better in 92 than 88. Not even a little bit.

Nope, not at 38! Not with their last two fights being losses (disputed or not)......and never successfully!!

I can't think of any 38+ year old guy coming back after 19 months out of the ring to fight, not just the world's premier heavyweight, but also arguably the world's pound for pound number 1 boxer.

The task in hand was enormous!

No two ways about it, after his 1991 comeback in which Mercer was his 6th fight in 10 months (no heavyweights do that these days!)....of course he'd have been fitter and sharper!

Stick an unbiased poll up if you like. I'm sure you'll be in the minority. The only folks who'd argue that 1988 Holmes would have been better than the 1991 Holmes (who carefully planned a high activity comeback) would be those who know nothing about the guy.

[Scott9945]

The gap between the Spinks fight and when Holmes started training again was only like 1.5 years. There are plenty of guys who've come back from that kind of a layoff and still been successful at a high level. There have been plenty of champions with activity levels that are only slightly better than that. I don't buy that he was better in 92 than 88. Not even a little bit.

Holmes was retired after the Spinks fights and expected to stay that way. As he has said over and over, he only took the Tyson fight on short notice for the money. When he made the comeback he did so because he desired to and on his own terms.

[TysonBomb]

Of course Holmes wasn't the same fighter he was in his prime, but he didn't decline that much either ... he was able to fight Spinks to a decision loss (he actually won that fight according to most people) just a couple of years prior to the Tyson bout

He still looked reasonably good against Tyson ... he wasn't that deteriorated as a fighter and his skills were still good ... not to mention all of the ***** he talked before the fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m861f99Nkvk

Tyson basically was the reason of his decline and made him look worst than he actually was ... prime Holmes lasts maybe 2 or 3 rounds longer until he gets blasted and put down against Mike

[StarshipTrooper]

The experts had commented that Holmes had noticeably slipped as early as the David Bay fight and that was in March of 1985. Fast forward three years, the last two inactive, and you most certainly have a fighter who was clearly over the hill. This shouldn't even be an open question. I find it laughable that certain people who will jump at the chance to tell you Tyson was past-it against Douglas have the nerve to suggest otherwise.

Poet

[TysonBomb]

The experts had commented that Holmes had noticeably slipped as early as the David Bay fight and that was in March of 1985. Fast forward three years, the last two inactive, and you most certainly have a fighter who was clearly over the hill. This shouldn't even be an open question. I find it laughable that certain people who will jump at the chance to tell you Tyson was past-it against Douglas have the nerve to suggest otherwise.

Poet

He was still capable and very good even though he wasn't in his prime ... and had a decent record after the Tyson bout so he wasn't as past it as you claim

And the Douglas fight was a once in a life time fluke. Its still considered the biggest upset in modern sports history ... Douglas trained like he never trained before and was fueled by the loss of his mother ... nothing was going to stop him that night and Tyson couldn't have been in a worst situation ... he fired Rooney, didn't take the fight seriously and had a bunch of circus clowns in his corner ... and after all that Mike was still able to drop him despite abandoning what made him great ... his head movement and defense ... he wasn't even throwing combinations he usually did that night ...

Everything that could possibly had ever gone right for Buster Douglas went right that night against Mike ... and everything that could've gone wrong for Mike went wrong

[StarshipTrooper]

He was still capable and very good even though he wasn't in his prime ... and had a decent record after the Tyson bout so he wasn't as past it as you claim

I'll refer you to the following thread for an examination of that so-called "decent" record >>>>>
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=502458

[Cardinal Buck]

Nope, not at 38! Not with their last two fights being losses (disputed or not)......and never successfully!!

I can't think of any 38+ year old guy coming back after 19 months out of the ring to fight, not just the world's premier heavyweight, but also arguably the world's pound for pound number 1 boxer.

The task in hand was enormous!

No two ways about it, after his 1991 comeback in which Mercer was his 6th fight in 10 months (no heavyweights do that these days!)....of course he'd have been fitter and sharper!

Stick an unbiased poll up if you like. I'm sure you'll be in the minority. The only folks who'd argue that 1988 Holmes would have been better than the 1991 Holmes (who carefully planned a high activity comeback) would be those who know nothing about the guy.

If you want to name every specific detail and count the Spinks fights and as black vs white losses...sure you're right but it also compromises your point. For starters, Vitali came back after a much longer layoff, deep into his thirties, and knocked off a top contender for a title.

[Sugarj]

If you want to name every specific detail and count the Spinks fights and as black vs white losses...sure you're right but it also compromises your point. For starters, Vitali came back after a much longer layoff, deep into his thirties, and knocked off a top contender for a title.

You compare Vitali coming back to fight Samuel Peter to Larry Holmes coming back to fight prime Mike Tyson!

I despair..............

Even 1988 Holmes would have toyed with Samuel Peter!

[res]

He was still capable and very good even though he wasn't in his prime ... and had a decent record after the Tyson bout so he wasn't as past it as you claim

And the Douglas fight was a once in a life time fluke. Its still considered the biggest upset in modern sports history ... Douglas trained like he never trained before and was fueled by the loss of his mother ... nothing was going to stop him that night and Tyson couldn't have been in a worst situation ... he fired Rooney, didn't take the fight seriously and had a bunch of circus clowns in his corner ... and after all that Mike was still able to drop him despite abandoning what made him great ... his head movement and defense ... he wasn't even throwing combinations he usually did that night ...

Everything that could possibly had ever gone right for Buster Douglas went right that night against Mike ... and everything that could've gone wrong for Mike went wrong

Why does all of this background drama matter when it comes to Tyson, but Holmes coming out of retirement after a 2 year lay off and having 2 months to train to fight Mike Tyson not matter?

Poet used the Douglas example but the Tyson/Holyfield example would have been better seeing as both fights were about 12 years after each fighter went pro. So I've reworded his quote.

" I find it laughable that certain people who will jump at the chance to tell you Tyson was past-it against Holyfield have the nerve to suggest otherwise."

[Ray Corso]

Holmes never quit in the center of the ring!! Holmes never bit a fighters ear so he could be DQ instead of being KO'd. Buster Douglas trained to beat Tyson by backing him up once he got his punches landing and using his upper cut to do the damage. He trained for it and made it happen. No excuses!! Tyson beat an old Holmes those are the facts but he beat him. Tyson got destroyed by Douglas a guy who wasn't supposed to finish on his feet but they knew if you can back up Tyson he'd get lost, he did!!'I place Douglas and Tyson at the same level, two men when everything is going their way can perform at a high level but when the waters get ruff they don't have the character to face the waves, so they drown! Ray