Larry Holmes was he really over the hill vs Tyson

[BennyST]

Over the hill but far from shot.

What ***** said.

Poet

***** knows man. He is the President after all.

[BennyST]

Holmes was never that unbeatable in his prime to begin with. A prime Holmes would have got KOed by Tyson. In Holmes' prime he was lucky to get decisons over Norton and Witherspoon. Shavers almost KOed him.

With Tyson, people always discredit his wins Spinks and holmes. Then when they talk about Lewis they say he has great wins over Holyfield and Tyson even though they were more washed up than Tysons opponents.

BS. They are the reason he is rightfully considered an ATG HW. He destroyed two great HW's, one at his peak. The reason he's not ranked higher is because those wins did, whether you like or not, come against an overhill ATG and a guy who was great but not a truly great HW.

Brilliant wins and they make his resume top heavy, but without them the rest is very good but not great.

[BennyST]

Biologically impossible without PEDs. Ring rust was not even an issue. At a certain point a man's experience far out weighs him being active as his body can't recover from training / fighting like it used to.

Also lets not forget that 1988 Tyson was a peak Tyson, yet Larry did pretty damn good against him till the KO came. And the KO came early. Meaning if conditioning was going to be a problem due to lack of training, it didn't have a chance to come into play.

Hmmm....I think I'd have to disagree there Mr President. Being active is the most important factor for an older past it guy to keep his reflexes sharp and his mind and body in the fight mode it needs to be in. Ring rust is more likely in an old, inactive guy that it is a young inactive guy.

Experience really only comes into play when you are still active. Without it, all the experience in the world takes a backseat to your mind and body not being sharp enough tom compete. You might see stuff happening and you simply can't do anything about it because your body refuses to act with your minds instruction. Your reflexes have died in the arse.

You and your body forget, just that little bit, about taking a hard punch, being tired, being stressed and your body also doesn't act as quick on what you need to do.

[Panthershock]

Holmes wasn't shot, but he wasn't close to the fighter he was and he took the fight on short notice after being inactive. The Holmes that fought Mercer and Holyfield 3 years later was probably better just due to being active.

Holmes was interviewed on the YES network and talked about fighting Tyson. He said that Don King called him with the idea, he initially turned it down saying that he hadn't fought in two years and was not at all ready to fight someone like that. King offered him enough $ that he said ok.

Don't take anything away from Tyson, he fought very well that night. He patiently stalked Holmes, didn't force anything and capitalized when given a small window to do so. He did this against a big smart fighter with a good jab and deserves credit for a good win. However he did not beat a fighter near the same league of prime Holmes, who had perhaps the best jab ever, foot and hand speed bested by very few.

Prime vs Prime I would say that Holmes stops Tyson late. It really wouldn't surprise me though if Tyson caught him. Larry did suffer some dubious knockdowns, but they came when he was up in a fight in the mid to late rounds where he would have a mental lapse. Larry and Tyson were both at their best early, Tyson's only chance really would be early.

[Sugarj]

Hmmm....I think I'd have to disagree there Mr President. Being active is the most important factor for an older past it guy to keep his reflexes sharp and his mind and body in the fight mode it needs to be in. Ring rust is more likely in an old, inactive guy that it is a young inactive guy.

Experience really only comes into play when you are still active. Without it, all the experience in the world takes a backseat to your mind and body not being sharp enough tom compete. You might see stuff happening and you simply can't do anything about it because your body refuses to act with your minds instruction. Your reflexes have died in the arse.

You and your body forget, just that little bit, about taking a hard punch, being tired, being stressed and your body also doesn't act as quick on what you need to do.

Agreed Benny, much as I concur with ***** on many subjects I do think that Holmes' increased activity in the early 1990s helped his return into world class. He was simply more ring sharp and would have been fitter than 1988 Holmes due to all the training camps throughout 1991. Two months was not enough time to return to anything like a world class athletic state in 1988. He had a fair bit of weight to shift, he had to regain anaerobic and aerobic fitness and also to get ring sharp. Two months is a big ask after two years out of the ring! Larry did the best he could with what time he had and he didn't do bad considering.

I personally dont think that 1988 Holmes (two years out of the ring and with two months to prepare) would have decisioned 1992 Ray Mercer or would have fought as well against Evander Holyfield later that year.

1988 Holmes might have been much more useful with five tuneups over the course of a year before facing Tyson. I think its logical!

[Boogie Nights]

Larry was past it but he wasnt a shot fighter. And while he wasnt in the peak of shape i think a lot of people are underestimating his preparation. He himself said that even during his retirement he was still doing roadwork and sneaking into the gym for sparring sessions. He also had quite a lot to say about mike's chances against him in prefight hype.

[cooper5]

Holmes was past his prime but not quite over the hill. He did take the fight without a tuneup or comeback fight and had been sitting on his butt drinking beer for a couple years. That is never a recipe for success, I know!

[Dynamite76]

Larry was somewhat shot since 1984.So, when he went in against Tyson, it was pretty much a wrap for Mike.

[Cardinal Buck]

To put Holmes' weight into perspective, he was 225 (according to boxrec). That's two pounds heavier than he was in the Spinks rematch and 8 pounds lighter than he was against Mercer. So he couldn't have been in such poor condition. It was probably a bigger problem that Tyson punched him in the head.

[Mintcar923]

If you guys recall, his plan was just to fend off Mike for 5 rounds and then start fighting as he believed he'd have a better chance later in the fight. In retrospect, it was the wrong strategy. But, Tyson was clearly at his best in '88 so I don't think he could have won regardless. Larry was clearly better and more prepared around the Mercer fight. He was great in the '90's but could not match the work-rate of guys like Holyfield and McCall.