Sam Langford>>>Muhammad Ali?

[frankenfrank]

Any era? **** me, this isn't going to be overly tricky.

Big George
Ali
Holmes
VKlit
Lewis
Bowe
Holyfield
Mike

There's 8 modern era for sure.

I'd even pick Norton, Quarry, Patterson to beat that fat, predictable ****.

Mike and Holyfield are far from being locks in beating prime Tua , who did Tyson beat in his prime that came close to a prime Tua ? the answer is no one. Holmes ? far from sure either . What you don't know about Holmes is that in the amateurs in 1972 he was stopped twice by a 5'10" whiteboy named Nick Wells , it was with thicker padded gloves and one of the times in the first round. Both times also occurred above the age of 23 , so Holmes was no undeveloped kid then. He was simply a big and vulnerable HW who managed to rule * a weak era (*) partly due to avoiding some of the contenders and not unifying the titles. Holmes also struggled against a shopworn Ken Norton and a weak and flawed Michael Spinks .
Holmes could build a lead against Tua , and may even win an ugly decision (as usual for him) in a fight , but in a series of fights he is going to get stopped by Tua somewhere .
Tua would have killed Norton , Quarry and Chuvalo.

[VibesMan]

Mike and Holyfield are far from being locks in beating prime Tua , who did Tyson beat in his prime that came close to a prime Tua ? the answer is no one. Holmes ? far from sure either . What you don't know about Holmes is that in the amateurs in 1972 he was stopped twice by a 5'10" whiteboy named Nick Wells , it was with thicker padded gloves and one of the times in the first round. Both times also occurred above the age of 23 , so Holmes was no undeveloped kid then. He was simply a big and vulnerable HW who managed to rule * a weak era (*) partly due to avoiding some of the contenders and not unifying the titles. Holmes also struggled against a shopworn Ken Norton and a weak and flawed Michael Spinks .
Holmes could build a lead against Tua , and may even win an ugly decision (as usual for him) in a fight , but in a series of fights he is going to get stopped by Tua somewhere .

Id agree Tyson isn't a "lock" to be at Tua but if push came to shove I'd fancy him. Same for Vander.

As for who did Mike beat prime that compared to Tua. Well that's a loaded question given how low I rate "prime" Tua. Tucker was certainly more talented as was Biggs.

Don't care what happened to Holmes in 72. Only Tyson put him away and he was shop worn by then anyway. To refer to Holmes as vulnerable is like calling Jorge Paez conservative.

Holmes jabs the head off Tua and peppers him with enough rights for a UD or the ref jumping in.

[VibesMan]

Mike and Holyfield are far from being locks in beating prime Tua , who did Tyson beat in his prime that came close to a prime Tua ? the answer is no one. Holmes ? far from sure either . What you don't know about Holmes is that in the amateurs in 1972 he was stopped twice by a 5'10" whiteboy named Nick Wells , it was with thicker padded gloves and one of the times in the first round. Both times also occurred above the age of 23 , so Holmes was no undeveloped kid then. He was simply a big and vulnerable HW who managed to rule * a weak era (*) partly due to avoiding some of the contenders and not unifying the titles. Holmes also struggled against a shopworn Ken Norton and a weak and flawed Michael Spinks .
Holmes could build a lead against Tua , and may even win an ugly decision (as usual for him) in a fight , but in a series of fights he is going to get stopped by Tua somewhere .
Tua would have killed Norton , Quarry and Chuvalo.

Just for the record - Who else has Tua "killed" aside from a cold Ruiz?

Obed Sullivan, Shane Sutcliffe?? Give me a break. Destroy Chuvalo? Come on.

[frankenfrank]

Just for the record - Who else has Tua "killed" aside from a cold Ruiz?

Obed Sullivan, Shane Sutcliffe?? Give me a break. Destroy Chuvalo? Come on.

Sullivan , Darroll Wilson (if a win over Cleveland Williams counts then a brutal clean 1st rd KO of Darroll Wilson counts too) , Ruiz (as you mentioned) , Maskaev , David Izon , Fres Oquendo , Dannell Nicholson , Nate Tubbs (stopped Corrie Sanders) , Cleveland Woods (stopped Ross Puritty) , and he may have stopped Michael Moorer without hitting him while down .

[frankenfrank]

Id agree Tyson isn't a "lock" to be at Tua but if push came to shove I'd fancy him. Same for Vander.

As for who did Mike beat prime that compared to Tua. Well that's a loaded question given how low I rate "prime" Tua. Tucker was certainly more talented as was Biggs.

Don't care what happened to Holmes in 72. Only Tyson put him away and he was shop worn by then anyway. To refer to Holmes as vulnerable is like calling Jorge Paez conservative.

Holmes jabs the head off Tua and peppers him with enough rights for a UD or the ref jumping in.

Tua was used to blocking and dodging jabs and sometimes absorbing them lite punchez , but in the end it rarely mattered ..
And why do you find Holmes "achievements" at the age of 23 irrelevant ?
Biggs and Tucker more talented than Tua ? there's some sonnyboyx2 talk ..

[VibesMan]

Sullivan , Darroll Wilson (if a win over Cleveland Williams counts then a brutal clean 1st rd KO of Darroll Wilson counts too) , Ruiz (as you mentioned) , Maskaev , David Izon , Fres Oquendo , Dannell Nicholson , Nate Tubbs (stopped Corrie Sanders) , Cleveland Woods (stopped Ross Puritty) , and he may have stopped Michael Moorer without hitting him while down .

I'm not having it pal.

No need for the Cleveland Williams reference as I'm not one of the older = greater brigade.

None of these guys count for much in the big picture.

Tua could hit, I'd be a fool not to concede that. I just don't rate him plain and simple.

I'll be eternally condemned to hell for this but the only ATG I'd give him half a chance with would be Louis. Not because he's got an ounce of the talent of JL but I question Louis' chin and head movement too much to rule out Tua clattering him with the left hook.

[VibesMan]

Tua was used to blocking and dodging jabs and sometimes absorbing them lite punchez , but in the end it rarely mattered ..
And why do you find Holmes "achievements" at the age of 23 irrelevant ?
Biggs and Tucker more talented than Tua ? there's some sonnyboyx2 talk ..

Biggs certainly was. Not saying I'd pick him H2H, but more talented.

Bottom line, Tua never once proved his salt when it REALLY mattered.

Holmes did time after time. You have to place your opinion on someones achievements on a consistent timespan surely? Not a one off.

[frankenfrank]

I'm not having it pal.

No need for the Cleveland Williams reference as I'm not one of the older = greater brigade.

None of these guys count for much in the big picture.

Tua could hit, I'd be a fool not to concede that. I just don't rate him plain and simple.

I'll be eternally condemned to hell for this but the only ATG I'd give him half a chance with would be Louis. Not because he's got an ounce of the talent of JL but I question Louis' chin and head movement too much to rule out Tua clattering him with the left hook.

Tua could hit but could also take hits , plus his defense was good for such an offensive fighter. (Prime) Tua would have killed any version of Louis , Marciano , Charles , Walcott , Frazier , Norton , Patterson , Liston , Dempsey , Jeffries , Corbett , Fitzsimmons , Ingemar Johnson , Schmelling , Baer , Braddock , almost every "HW" chump in history.

Biggs certainly was. Not saying I'd pick him H2H, but more talented.

Bottom line, Tua never once proved his salt when it REALLY mattered.

Holmes did time after time. You have to place your opinion on someones achievements on a consistent timespan surely? Not a one off.

I got ya ,
Tua may have been good , but he could never have been as smooth and slick as Sugar Tyrell Biggs .
After all Tua was nowhere as sweet as Francesco Damiani , Gary Mason , Buster Mathis Jr. or Ray Anis.

[VibesMan]

Tua could hit but could also take hits , plus his defense was good for such an offensive fighter. (Prime) Tua would have killed any version of Louis , Marciano , Charles , Walcott , Frazier , Norton , Patterson , Liston , Dempsey , Jeffries , Corbett , Fitzsimmons , Ingemar Johnson , Schmelling , Baer , Braddock , almost every "HW" chump in history.

I got ya ,
Tua may have been good , but he could never have been as smooth and slick as Sugar Tyrell Biggs .
After all Tua was nowhere as sweet as Francesco Damiani , Gary Mason , Buster Mathis Jr. or Ray Anis.

How does a guy who loses to Lewis, Byrd, Ike and draws with any version of Monte Barrett cream every guy you've just listed???

You my friend are one sick puppy.

I truly hope this is an attempt to send that odd Sonny chap into one of his wild rages during which he suggest the 8 ft 2 inch, 415lb Willie Pep "brutalizes" Tua and V/W Klit. If it's not you mad as **** my amigo!

Later chief.

[GoogleMe]

Any era? **** me, this isn't going to be overly tricky.

Big George
Ali
Holmes
VKlit
Lewis
Bowe
Holyfield
Mike

There's 8 modern era for sure.

I'd even pick Norton, Quarry, Patterson to beat that fat, predictable ****.

Vitali
Wladimir
Tyson
Lewis
Ali
George
Joe Louis
David Haye even could I think
Holyfield
Chris Byrd
There's so many. And I could name 10 from 2000-2010 also.