Sam Langford>>>Muhammad Ali?

[JAB5239]

Look at these fools.

Langford greater than Ali?


Not a chance. As was previously mentioned, Langford also ducked fighters. There is this racist myth that white fighters somehow ducked Langford. The inverse is true.

Ok, tell us all the fighters he ducked and back it up with proof.

[GoogleMe]

This is where you fail to get the difference between P4P and H2H.
Sam does deserve more credit for his wins in a P4P sense.
However , in the H2H sense , I don't rate him higher than Ali.

When the question is who was greater between 2 fighters it means who was greater in the P4P sense , and many times the 2 compared fighters are not from the same division so P4P is the only reasonable way to consider the question , or otherwise it would have been decided most of the times by tale of the tape alone.

Multiple champion, is better then only champion at HW yes. But greater doesn't mean just p4p. Would you rank Sam, higher on your ATG list then Ali?

[GoogleMe]

What are you getting at? In no way did I suggest Langford should be regarded better at HW. He however should be regarded better p4p. He was great at WW, MW, LHW, and HW. Who the hell can say that? Nobody. Ezzard Charles can claim 3. Langford is the only man who can claim all 4. Some guys were very good at the 4 and maybe even a 5th, but Langford is the only guy who was great at all 4.

I were talking about your quote that Ali were the greatest HW ever, because he were a small guy fighting bigger guys.
This is not to bash you my friend, you're respected around this board - so don't get me wrong.

[frankenfrank]

Multiple champion, is better then only champion at HW yes. But greater doesn't mean just p4p. Would you rank Sam, higher on your ATG list then Ali?

At P4P I rank Langford #1 and Ali outside top 20 , at HW I rank Ali at top 10 , and Langford outside the top 20. So it depends ATG in what sense.

[frankenfrank]

I were talking about your quote that Ali were the greatest HW ever, because he were a small guy fighting bigger guys.
This is not to bash you my friend, you're respected around this board - so don't get me wrong.

Totally wrong , Ali at HW was the big guy fighting smaller guys and still failing to impress like against Frazier and Doug Jones . Against Foreman he made use of ropes unfitting the ring for his rope-a-dope tactic that could not have worked otherwise , but regardless , he was almost Foreman's size , so it is a bad example of a small guy against a big guy.

[GJC]

And I watched his fight against Doug Jones recently , Ali did not beat him.

Nope you read about the fight recently, no one who has seen the fight favours Jones but everyone who has read about it does

[Barn]

He fought and beat better fighters. In my mind that equals being greater.

Pound for Pound: Langford EASILY.
Heavyweight : Ali decisively but not by that much...?

[Barn]

Totally wrong , Ali at HW was the big guy fighting smaller guys and still failing to impress like against Frazier and Doug Jones . Against Foreman he made use of ropes unfitting the ring for his rope-a-dope tactic that could not have worked otherwise , but regardless , he was almost Foreman's size , so it is a bad example of a small guy against a big guy.

In the Fraizer and Foreman fights Ali had been on his layoff and at lost a chunk of athletic ability.

[frankenfrank]

In the Fraizer and Foreman fights Ali had been on his layoff and at lost a chunk of athletic ability.

People need to rest anyway between fights . See Vassily Jirov's performance after 18 moths layoff against James Toney.

Some injuries take long time to heal anyway.

And the Doug Jones fight occurred before the layoff anyway.

[GoogleMe]

Totally wrong , Ali at HW was the big guy fighting smaller guys and still failing to impress like against Frazier and Doug Jones . Against Foreman he made use of ropes unfitting the ring for his rope-a-dope tactic that could not have worked otherwise , but regardless , he was almost Foreman's size , so it is a bad example of a small guy against a big guy.

I'd say that Ali was a heavyweight. So don't try to teach me anythng please. You called Tua a top 10 atg heavyweight once.