Why is it that people think that speed=skill?

[Steak]

I did this same topic in NSB, but I figured people wouldnt have the patience to read it there, ha, so here goes...

When in reality its generally the opposite? The guys with natural speed advantages dont have to rely on their skill most the time, and can just get away with basic stuff because they outspeed the other guy.

seriously, what takes more skill to do? fight it out at close range while interpreting the opponents next moves and outsmarting them, or using your speed to potshot and run away? I mean come on.

Its fighters like Froch that are unfairly labeled 'unskilled'. the guy has few physical gifts. hes not that fast, not an overwhelmingly strong puncher, and even his chin is not quite as good as some people try to make it out to be...and yet he can still compete with top guys that are far more physically gifted than him. That is skill, no matter how you look at it, and if you actually look closely at what he does in the ring you can recongnise that he actually is far more crafty than people give him credit for.

I love it when people say a guy is able to win on because he 'imposes his will on another fighter' or something like that. Trust me, if youve ever boxed someone before and have recklessly tried to 'impose your will' on someone, it flat out doesnt work. People that label certain fighters as 'brawlers' and assume theyre unskilled have no idea what theyre saying, because unless you have a huge advantage in chin and natural power, it takes a LOT of skill to 'brawl' with guys and come out on top. its just not as flashy, and its very discrete and hard to notice...but thats the true skill that top boxers are made out of.

now, this isnt to say that fast guys arent skilled. of course you can have both. but its irritating to see certain fighters labeled as 'unskilled' when reality theyre actually very well schooled and clever, and are often simply at a physical disadvantage.
There are two factors that matter in boxing: Physical attributes and mental(which is predominantly skill, but heart is there as well to a lesser degree). and if a guy is still successful at the top of boxing and doesnt have a lot of physical attributes, hes got to be doing something right.

Side Note: I dislike how certain fast guys are also automatically called great 'combination punchers' as well. guys that are good at flurrying quickly and landing 1/4 of their punches, maybe one of them landing clean, are not actually that great of combination punchers. someone like Julio Cesar Chavez who could throw a (slower) 7 punch combination and land all of them near flush, now THAT is a good combination puncher.

And I dont blame fighters for using their physical advantages: its a very big part of boxing, and would be ****** not to take advantage of. I just like to clear up misconceptions on this board.

[wmute]

You are absolutely right. I think part of the problem is that a few exceptions, today's fighters are pathetic when it comes to inside fighting, where speed matters less.

Boxing fans do not even know what inside fighting is. There was a thread in NSB a few weeks ago (I think). It was a bout Pac-PBF, and what happens if they fought inside. The posts were ridiculous. I posted clips from Rosario-Chavez to explain. A FEW ****1NG TIMES. Some ppl still did not understand the difference between mid range and inside.

How can you expect morons like that to think that anything different than sharpshooting involves skill?

[Vadrigar.]

Great post, It's a shame NSB has turned into this. But I think you'd agree speed is part of boxing ability. Yes?

[SplitSecond]

speed is usually directly connected to athleticism
and every great has a special attribute which he was born with(speed, power etc)

which further proves the point that champions are born and not made

[wmute]

I did this same topic in NSB, but I figured people wouldnt have the patience to read it there, ha, so here goes...

When in reality its generally the opposite? The guys with natural speed advantages dont have to rely on their skill most the time, and can just get away with basic stuff because they outspeed the other guy.

seriously, what takes more skill to do? fight it out at close range while interpreting the opponents next moves and outsmarting them, or using your speed to potshot and run away? I mean come on.

Its fighters like Froch that are unfairly labeled 'unskilled'. the guy has few physical gifts. hes not that fast, not an overwhelmingly strong puncher, and even his chin is not quite as good as some people try to make it out to be...and yet he can still compete with top guys that are far more physically gifted than him. That is skill, no matter how you look at it, and if you actually look closely at what he does in the ring you can recongnise that he actually is far more crafty than people give him credit for.

I love it when people say a guy is able to win on because he 'imposes his will on another fighter' or something like that. Trust me, if youve ever boxed someone before and have recklessly tried to 'impose your will' on someone, it flat out doesnt work. People that label certain fighters as 'brawlers' and assume theyre unskilled have no idea what theyre saying, because unless you have a huge advantage in chin and natural power, it takes a LOT of skill to 'brawl' with guys and come out on top. its just not as flashy, and its very discrete and hard to notice...but thats the true skill that top boxers are made out of.

now, this isnt to say that fast guys arent skilled. of course you can have both. but its irritating to see certain fighters labeled as 'unskilled' when reality theyre actually very well schooled and clever, and are often simply at a physical disadvantage.
There are two factors that matter in boxing: Physical attributes and mental(which is predominantly skill, but heart is there as well to a lesser degree). and if a guy is still successful at the top of boxing and doesnt have a lot of physical attributes, hes got to be doing something right.

Side Note: I dislike how certain fast guys are also automatically called great 'combination punchers' as well. guys that are good at flurrying quickly and landing 1/4 of their punches, maybe one of them landing clean, are not actually that great of combination punchers. someone like Julio Cesar Chavez who could throw a (slower) 7 punch combination and land all of them near flush, now THAT is a good combination puncher.

And I dont blame fighters for using their physical advantages: its a very big part of boxing, and would be ****** not to take advantage of. I just like to clear up misconceptions on this board.

yo this seems a weird reply because it's related to the other thread on NSB.

I agree with you, but I wanted to point out that grit does matter. You still need skill, but how many times have we seen a guy eat a ****load of punches from a flashy fighter, while having the discipline and dedication to break him down. And those stinging jabs you eat, might not be KO punches but, they DO hurt. That's where grit comes into play, I would say.

[wmute]

Great post, It's a shame NSB has turned into this. But I think you'd agree speed is part of boxing ability. Yes?

yup definitely something you want to use (and harvest in training). But as it has been pointed out, watch JC at work on Taylor or Camacho. Speed is good, but grit, timing, a solid mindset, slipping, rolling and weaving can do wonders against it.

[Barn]

As you said people like Julio Cesar Chavez, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler etc, who did not have a much speed but still won fights because of their abundance of skill.
That's why I think some people rank RJJ to high. He was more athletically gifted than ring smart and that won him a lot of fights.

[GJC]

Think speed like a KO punch can majorly compensate for a lack of technical skill. Allied with technical skill it can be a devastating combination

[wmute]

As you said people like Julio Cesar Chavez, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler etc, who did not have a much speed but still won fights because of their abundance of skill.
That's why I think some people rank RJJ to high. He was more athletically gifted than ring smart and that won him a lot of fights.

Jones was definitely a smart fighter. Regardless of how he kept his hands. Certainly smarter than my boy Hagler.

[them_apples]

I did this same topic in NSB, but I figured people wouldnt have the patience to read it there, ha, so here goes...

When in reality its generally the opposite? The guys with natural speed advantages dont have to rely on their skill most the time, and can just get away with basic stuff because they outspeed the other guy.

seriously, what takes more skill to do? fight it out at close range while interpreting the opponents next moves and outsmarting them, or using your speed to potshot and run away? I mean come on.

Its fighters like Froch that are unfairly labeled 'unskilled'. the guy has few physical gifts. hes not that fast, not an overwhelmingly strong puncher, and even his chin is not quite as good as some people try to make it out to be...and yet he can still compete with top guys that are far more physically gifted than him. That is skill, no matter how you look at it, and if you actually look closely at what he does in the ring you can recongnise that he actually is far more crafty than people give him credit for.

I love it when people say a guy is able to win on because he 'imposes his will on another fighter' or something like that. Trust me, if youve ever boxed someone before and have recklessly tried to 'impose your will' on someone, it flat out doesnt work. People that label certain fighters as 'brawlers' and assume theyre unskilled have no idea what theyre saying, because unless you have a huge advantage in chin and natural power, it takes a LOT of skill to 'brawl' with guys and come out on top. its just not as flashy, and its very discrete and hard to notice...but thats the true skill that top boxers are made out of.

now, this isnt to say that fast guys arent skilled. of course you can have both. but its irritating to see certain fighters labeled as 'unskilled' when reality theyre actually very well schooled and clever, and are often simply at a physical disadvantage.
There are two factors that matter in boxing: Physical attributes and mental(which is predominantly skill, but heart is there as well to a lesser degree). and if a guy is still successful at the top of boxing and doesnt have a lot of physical attributes, hes got to be doing something right.

Side Note: I dislike how certain fast guys are also automatically called great 'combination punchers' as well. guys that are good at flurrying quickly and landing 1/4 of their punches, maybe one of them landing clean, are not actually that great of combination punchers. someone like Julio Cesar Chavez who could throw a (slower) 7 punch combination and land all of them near flush, now THAT is a good combination puncher.

And I dont blame fighters for using their physical advantages: its a very big part of boxing, and would be ****** not to take advantage of. I just like to clear up misconceptions on this board.

Duran had 10 times the skill of a lot of these so called slick fighters.