Rank these 3 Heavyweights

[sonnyboyx2]

I dont doubt that Lewis didn't want to fight Byrd or Ruiz:

Nobody looked good against Byrd till he was 'shot'. Even Ibeabuchi, when stopping him in five had trouble with his style. I have no doubt that Lewis would have won a fight with Byrd, I doubt that he would have feared him either. Likewise Ruiz, Lewis would have been a big favorite going into both fights.

But at that stage in his career (early noughties) Lewis was wanting the bigger money fights and was prepared to vacate titles to fight more lucrative opponents like Grant, Tua and later on Tyson (who all will have commanded higher paydays for Lewis and possibly have been lower risk opponents than Byrd or Ruiz?!).

Props to Lewis for actually getting in the ring with Vitali though, late substitute or not.

Sugarj.... Vitali was thought of as "Nothing Special" after quitting against Byrd, he was thought of as the vastly inferior of the two brothers which is why Lewis accepted/chose him as a substitute..Lewis boasted he would have one brother for breakfast and the other brother for lunch.... he **** himself after the first round against Vitali and never went in the same town as either brother after that fight.

Lewis facing Grant, Tua & Tyson are vastly easier fights for him than Byrd, Ruiz & Vitali (rematch)
1/. Grant had been floored & exposed as a mediocre fighter by Golota and Lewis seen that from ringside as well as a very easy payday... Lewis himself hyped-up Grant as a worldbeater.

2/. Tua was weighing 300lbs when Lewis agreed to fight him, he managed to get down to 250lb by fight night and was pathetic.

3/. Tyson was weighing 280lbs 12 weeks before fight night and spent those 12 weeks in the sauna so as to look respectable in the ring... Tyson was a shell of the great fighter 13yrs previously, his losses to McBride & Williams proved so.

Ruiz, Byrd and Vitali was all "At the top of their game" and Lewis knew that they were so he avoided them and was rightly stripped of his belts.

[Sugarj]

Hi Sonnyboyx,

ha ha, yea I remember Lewis making that comment about the Klitschko brothers. I think it was when he was filming Oceans 11, then he comes in undertrained for Rahman and gets starched!!

I didn't write Vitali off after the Byrd fight, some did.....but I still rated the guy as a big, heavy handed lump with a good chin. Everything Lewis wouldn't like.

I did say in my post that Grant, Tua and Tyson may have been 'lower risk' than Ruiz and Byrd......so I agree with you there. Higher cash too.

As for your points 1, 2, and 3. I'd agree!

Tua was the biggest disappointment, an extra couple of stone off his waist and he might have done well. From what I recall the Grant vs Golota fight was quite a good watch........It properly exposed Grant though.

As for poor old Tyson, all he had at that stage was a punchers chance. He had a good first round, but no stamina to sustain it, no hunger to train.

[Joeyzagz]

Not true
Tyson was the wbc no 1 ranked contender, he wantted to fight Rahman after Rahman beat Lewis

I couldve saved you a lot of copy/pasting if i had posted this in the first place. Mike is clearly calling out Lennox Lewis in this interview. Clearly.

This clip transcended the sport itself and put Lewis/Tyson on the minds of non-boxing fans. If he wouldve shown this enthusiasm and urgency after falling to Douglas, I believe Douglas would be greatly pressured into fighting a rematch.

His age has nothing to do with it, its the surrounding circumstances that I have a problem with. Your opponent is ahead on the scorecards pleading with the doctors to let him carry on fighting, how is that a good way to finish your career?

A TKO victory over the PRIME dominant champ of the next era is the BEST way to end your career. I cant think of a better way to be honest. Lets compare this ending to other ATGs

Quitting on your stool to Kevin Mcbride?

Getting beat by a LHW in back to back fights at age 32?

Suffering Parkinsons disease and losing to Berbick?

The common age for retirement in most athletic sports, including boxing, is late 30's. Ike Ibeabucci and Valero finished too soon, ROy and Ali held on too long, If you remove all of your emotional attachment to this issue, you will realize that Lennox finished his career on time.

[crold1]

it is you who is wrong... Lewis mandatory No1 challenger in the WBA was John Ruiz and Lewis never had any intention of ever fighting him just like he never had any intention of fighting IBF No1 contender Chris Byrd or fight a rematch as he promised with Vitali Klitschko.

Actually it was Akinwande...then Holyfield...and then the WBA was like 'whoops, we counted wrong' and it was Ruiz. And you can say he never had any intention but he went to court and told the WBA he did. Much different than the cash he took for Tyson in 96 and Byrd in late 02.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your Lewis diatribe though. Carry on.

[Jim Jeffries]

Lets compare this ending to other ATGs

Quitting on your stool to Kevin Mcbride?

Getting beat by a LHW in back to back fights at age 32?

Suffering Parkinsons disease and losing to Berbick?

The common age for retirement in most athletic sports, including boxing, is late 30's. Ike Ibeabucci and Valero finished too soon, ROy and Ali held on too long, If you remove all of your emotional attachment to this issue, you will realize that Lennox finished his career on time.

Posts like this will do little, if anything to enhance your rep around here. Tyson's prime was from ages 20 to 23, by the time of the McBride fight, he was 39, 16 years past his best. Far cry from Lennox, who was almost 24 when he turned pro and whose prime was in his early to mid 30's, retiring just a few years later at 37.

I'm assuming you're talking about Holmes in the next statement, he was 35 and 36 in the two very close losses (the second rather suspect) to one of the greatest LHWs of all time, after 21 straight title defenses by Larry (never losing to the likes of Oliver McCall or Rahman in the process.) Holmes would also go on to have a pretty decent career after that, beating an undefeated Ray Mercer and putting up a pretty good fight against Holyfield, despite being 42 at the time.

Holding Parkinson's against Ali leaves me a bit speechless, so I won't bother to touch that one.

What is your response to the allegations that Lewis shamefully ducked Ruiz, Byrd and Wlad Klitschko?

[Calilloyd]

Posts like this will do little, if anything to enhance your rep around here. Tyson's prime was from ages 20 to 23, by the time of the McBride fight, he was 39, 16 years past his best. Far cry from Lennox, who was almost 24 when he turned pro and whose prime was in his early to mid 30's, retiring just a few years later at 37.

I'm assuming you're talking about Holmes in the next statement, he was 35 and 36 in the two very close losses (the second rather suspect) to one of the greatest LHWs of all time, after 21 straight title defenses by Larry (never losing to the likes of Oliver McCall or Rahman in the process.) Holmes would also go on to have a pretty decent career after that, beating an undefeated Ray Mercer and putting up a pretty good fight against Holyfield, despite being 42 at the time.

Holding Parkinson's against Ali leaves me a bit speechless, so I won't bother to touch that one.

What is your response to the allegations that Lewis shamefully ducked Ruiz, Byrd and Wlad Klitschko?

Those are false allegations. Lewis chose Grant over Ruiz. At the time Grant was seen as the much more dangerous opponent. And Lewis fought Vitali who is much better than Ruiz. So it makes no sense for Lewis to be afraid of an average heavyweight champion like Ruiz. Vitali was the better of the two brothers at the time too. Lewis couldn't fight everybody at the end of his career. I think his record speaks for itself.

[GOD-FR33]

Huh?

Hey. In terms of accomplishments you rank LEWIS over HOLYFIELD? NO WAY! Based on what??????? LEWIS didn't fight a primed BOWE and wanted nothing of him at that time around 91/92 because he KNOWS BOWE would have K.O.ed that version of him. He had a GOOD career but he wasn't in HOLYFIELD'S class. HOLYFIELD is a TOP 10 ALL-TIME GREAT HEAVY. LEWIS isn't in the TOP 25.

[GOD-FR33]

Of course.......

Hey man. GOD-FR33 here from MKE. You know why he looked BIGGER? Because he was BIGGER than TYSON. Not as dynamic a puncher but people always underestimated HOLYFIELD's natural strength. Especially when he fought guys his size. He was a BEAST. A FRAK OF NATURE Nobody his size could beat him. JOE FRAZIER would have had the same problem moving HOLY as TYSON did. He wasn't normal in any era. The heavyweight division had never seen such combination punching or stamina before. Besides ALI(stamina wise)

[Toney616]

I couldve saved you a lot of copy/pasting if i had posted this in the first place. Mike is clearly calling out Lennox Lewis in this interview. Clearly.

I'm assuming that vid is from the Lou Savarese fight 2000-06-24

Lets take a look at things leading up to Tyson-Lewis:

Lewis was Tysons wbc mandatory in 1996 and Tyson vacated his belt so he didnt have to face him
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u...0court&f=false

Regains WBC heavyweight title with third-round stoppage of Frank Bruno in Las Vegas. Retakes WBA title on 7 September by beating Bruce Seldon with first-round knockout but two weeks later he relinquishes WBC title to avoid facing Lennox Lewis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/196998.stm
After Rahman kos Lewis Tyson was willing to take Rahman to court to get his title shot:

With Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson both taking their case's to court with Lennox wanting to enforce the rematch clause and Tyson wanting to enforce his mandatory contender position,

http://www.ea$tsideboxing.com/curry2111.html
After Lewis wins, he decides he wants to fight Mercer instead so Lewis took Tyson to court, forcing him to cancel the Mercer fight

Heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis recently filed a suit seeking to strip Mike Tyson of his status as a mandatory challenger with the World Boxing Council (WBC) if Tyson fights Ray Mercer in a Jan. 19 bout.

The suit, which also names the WBC as a defendant, was filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan and contends the Tyson-Mercer fight could hurt Lewis financially. Tyson is expected to fight Lewis for the heavyweight title in April.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-81861179.html
Does this look like the actions of a man who wants to fight Lewis?

This clip transcended the sport itself and put Lewis/Tyson on the minds of non-boxing fans. If he wouldve shown this enthusiasm and urgency after falling to Douglas, I believe Douglas would be greatly pressured into fighting a rematch.

What you believe is irrelevant
He asked Douglas for another shot, I'm sure if you search around you can find evidence of that, like this:

Donald Trump said yesterday that he had an ''agreement'' with Don King, the promoter for both Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson, to stage a rematch between the two heavyweights on June 18 in Atlantic City.

''We made a deal a little while ago,'' said Trump about another match between Tyson and Douglas, the man who knocked out the previously undefeated champion Sunday in Tokyo.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/13/sp...ntic-city.html

No Tyson-Douglas Rematch Planned, King Says
Boxing: Promoter calls former champion's loss to Holyfield disgraceful, picks Foreman to win title.
October 29, 1990|EARL GUSTKEY, TIMES STAFF WRITER

Don King, promoter of former heavyweight champion Mike Tyson, said there will be no Buster Douglas-Tyson rematch.

"Absolutely not," King said, commenting on Douglas' loss of the heavyweight title to Evander Holyfield Thursday night.

"If Douglas had given Holyfield a great fight, and gone out like a tiger and lost and everyone had said: 'Wow, what a fight!' then sure, I would've made that fight right away, while we wait for a shot at Holyfield or (George) Foreman.

"But after that disgraceful exhibition Thursday, who would want to see Buster fight anybody now?"

Had Douglas beaten Holyfield, King and Mirage president Steve Wynn would have co-promoted Douglas-Tyson II.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-...buster-douglas
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=i...ematch&f=false
later on

AAP Sports News (Australia)
08-04-1999
BOX: Tyson Douglas rematch reported slated for October

WASHINGTON, Aug 3 AFP - Mike Tyson will fight James "Buster" Douglas on October 2 in Las
Vegas in a rematch of a stunning 1990 heavyweight boxing upset in Tokyo, a newspaper reported
here today.

The Washington Times, citing unnamed sources, said final details are being worked out for
the bout and could be completed by the end of the week with Tyson being paid $US10 million
($A15.42 million) and Douglas receiving $US1 million ($A1.54 million).

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-22479578.html
Starting negotiations for a fight is much more serious than just calling someone out, anyone can do that

A TKO victory over the PRIME dominant champ of the next era is the BEST way to end your career.

Lennox Lewis has chosen to hold his finale fight against his old adversary, Mike Tyson.

Lewis is set for a $100 million finale to his career after relinquishing his IBF world title. The abdication, which still leaves him as WBC and IBO champion, has cleared the way for a final flourish which would cement the place in heavyweight history he desires.

The plan, under his new three-fight deal with American TV station HBO, is for a fight with former WBO heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko, a return with Mike Tyson and a showdown with the younger Klitschko brother, WBO holder Wladimir, before he heads for retirement.

Lewis decided to hand in his belt rather than face a court ruling to meet Chris Byrd who despite being the mandatory challenger, did not rate highly on the earning or entertainment scales.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/303...n-rematch.html

[Tyson.]

If Tyson fought Lewis and Holyfield in his prime he would have KOed Lewis and decisoned Holyfield. Prime Lewis got KOed by Tyson sparring partner. I would have Lewis beating prime Holyfield though.

Legacy wise based on Heavyweight achievements Lewis is the greatest, then Holyfield, then Tyson. Tyson would have been a consensus GOAT and retired undefeated breaking Joe Lewis's title defences had he stayed focused and trained properly.