Rank these 3 Heavyweights

[crold1]

you are wrong... the WBA let Lewis keep their belt as long as he agreed to fight John Ruiz after Grant... link below.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4529125.html

And a month later, check the dates on the link I posted, the courts overruled the WBA. You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sorry.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2000/0413/boxing.html

"The WBA had sanctioned Lewis-Grant. But King said that was a violation of its own rules for mandatory defences. Grant (31-0) is the WBA's number 5 contender. Ironically, it was Lewis (35-1-1) who had initiated the court case in a bid to have his deal with King overturned. Lewis claimed that King had coerced him into signing a fraudulent contract to fight then number-one contender Henry Akinwande or the leading "available contender" even though King knew that Akinwande was suffering from Hepatitis B and not likely to fight any time soon."

[Toney616]

Why are you posting an interview from 2003 when Tyson/Lewis had already fought in 2002? Of course Tyson wanted no part of him after losing! Tyson wanted it the FIRST time which was the point of my post.

Not true
Tyson was the wbc no 1 ranked contender, he wantted to fight Rahman after Rahman beat Lewis

With Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson both taking their case's to court with Lennox wanting to enforce the rematch clause and Tyson wanting to enforce his mandatory contender position, Hasim Rahman, although hard to believe, sat at the top of the Heavyweight division. Worst of all, he was Champion of the World, with the biggest names in the sport wanting to get at him for the title.

http://www.ea$tsideboxing.com/curry2111.html
After Lewis won his court case against Rahman and beat him Tyson decided he wanted to fight Mercer instead, Lewis then took him and the WBC to court, forcing the WBC to force Tyson to fight Lewis instead.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5...20WBC.&f=false

Heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis recently filed a suit seeking to strip Mike Tyson of his status as a mandatory challenger with the World Boxing Council (WBC) if Tyson fights Ray Mercer in a Jan. 19 bout.

The suit, which also names the WBC as a defendant, was filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan and contends the Tyson-Mercer fight could hurt Lewis financially. Tyson is expected to fight Lewis for the heavyweight title in April.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-81861179.html

Lewis had been contemplating retirement long before he even fought Vitali. I dont think his handlers and Emanuel Steward wanted him to do it but he was talking about it quite a bit after Tyson.

Lewis wanted to fight Tyson again, but Vitali (the wbc no 1 contender) took Lewis to court forcing him to face him instead

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis sued Vitali Klitschko and the WBC, contending they brokered a deal to force him to defend the title against the Ukrainian boxer.

Lewis filed the suit Tuesday in Superior Court and requested an injunction. The suit comes after Lewis called off the April 12 fight with Klitschko, who filed a suit against the WBC that was later dropped.

"We've taken notice of the Lewis lawsuit, but we don't have any comment on it at the moment," said Christoph Rybarczyk, spokesman for Universum, Klitschko's promoter.

Klitschko's suit noted WBC rules that require the heavyweight champion to defend his title at least once a year. Under those rules, Lewis would have to defend his title by June 8.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/box...lewis_suit_ap/

But regardless of what was said, I ask you again; What is so terribly wrong about a boxer retiring at age 38?

His age has nothing to do with it, its the surrounding circumstances that I have a problem with. Your opponent is ahead on the scorecards pleading with the doctors to let him carry on fighting, how is that a good way to finish your career? If Lewis was that serious about retiring then why did he mess vitali around for 9 months?

[SBleeder]

I said he was past prime, not the same thing as being shot, he was still a world class fighter up until prison. He was past prime because he wasnt training as hard as he did before

Mike Tyson: The only fighter who chose to end his own prime.

What a joke. A fighter is "past their prime" when their body isn't physically able to do the things it could do previously, due to age and nature. Not because they decided to take it easy.

[Toney616]

If you are going to make excuses for Tyson being shot at 23 Years of age then you are in no position to criticize Lennox.

I said he was past prime, not the same thing as being shot, he was still a world class fighter up until prison. He was past prime because he wasnt training as hard as he did before.

Its natural for a body to lose athleticism once it reaches 35, it is NOT natural to go around raping people, and being a shell of your former self at 24.

What are you going on about?
I said his skill set decreased after he left Rooney, I never said anything about his body losing its athletic potential. I said he was at his PHYSICAL peak, but not his TECHNICAL peak

Logan Hobson, of CompuBox, has charted punch statistics for many of Tyson's bouts. He said Tyson's trainers might or might not be to blame, but something obviously had reduced his level of effectiveness inside the ropes.

"Mike Tyson in his prime wasn't that busy, but he would jab his way in, move his head and flurry," Hobson said. "Starting with the Bruno fight, his jab output started dropping and his opponents' power-punch connect percentage began to rise. He was getting hit with punches he never got hit with before. By the time he went to jail, he was a fighter who was content just to load up on every punch. I think he got too enamored of his own power."

http://community.seattletimes.nwsour...6&slug=2107196

The following year, Rooney was fired right after Tyson's fight with Spinks in 1988 and the two have been estranged ever since. Their separation has seen the decline in Tyson's skills and motivation... with the once 'Baddest Man on the Planet' suddenly equipped with only 3 rounds of energy, no D'Amato defense and a prayer for a one punch knockout.

http://www.tysontalk.com/article417.html

He has no jab, he doesn't work the body, he throws few combinations, and clinches frequently. He shows less and less defense and only sporadically returns to D'Amato's trademark peekaboo style. He no longer intimidates. True, Henry Tillman and Alex Stewart, two stops on Tyson's way back from the Douglas fiasco, appeared to be terrified. But Ruddock stood in with Tyson and was not horribly damaged or even terribly impressed. Steve Lott, a member of the Tyson camp when Jacobs and Cayton held sway, is most struck by this growing composure among Tyson opponents. "You used to watch Mike, and you'd think, This guy doesn't get hit," Lott says. "These other guys are hitting air and he's coming back with bombs and the fight's over. Now the top guys are saying, Wait a minute. Ruddock stood toe to toe with Tyson, shot for shot, for seven rounds. This never happened before. It happened for 30 seconds, but seven rounds? Now, Ruddock may be a good fighter, but he's not Joe Louis."

Eddie Futch, the veteran trainer who has taken on 23-year-old Rid**** Bowe for an assault on the title Tyson once consolidated, says, "He's stopped using his jab to work his way in. He comes straight in, head up, swinging his punches. He seems to be trying to bomb his way through. The intensity is there, but the direction is not. Apparently his shots are not hitting the vital spots as often."

Trainer and broadcaster Gil Clancy saw the same thing in the Ruddock fight. Those home run swings were easy to see coming, and the blasts were quickly knocked down for ground-rule doubles. "So instead of having to get out of the way, Ruddock could just brace himself," says Clancy.

What has happened to Tyson's skill at working the body? At coming in behind the jab? "Not there," says Teddy Atlas, who worked with Tyson in D'Amato's camp years ago. "He doesn't work his way in behind the jab, he doesn't punch to the body. Rather than work his way into position to throw punches—and it is work—he loads up with wide punches and long punches. The one thing he has retained is his power. But when he's loading up, he's vulnerable."

And, finally, what about defense? Why was Ruddock able to hit him? Says Butch Lewis, who managed former champion Michael Spinks, a one-round knockout victim in the fight that is regarded as Tyson's greatest: "He was always in perpetual motion. He never stood straight up for us. Always the head moving, the shoulders rolling and pumping, side to side. Every time you looked back up, he was in your face, that little son of a gun. Where did that come from? Now he just stands up straight. Douglas exposed that."

This dereliction of technique is not easy to explain. Steward suggests that it is actually the result of the aging process, a natural regression. At 24? "I never saw him being successful past 26," says Steward. "His style was strictly youth and instinct, based on driving through people. It never allowed for a long career. All youth and aggression, fighting with your head up front. The second you slow down, for whatever reason, you lose it. Because your face, which is 10 inches closer, isn't getting out of the way like when you were young and fast. You just can't get away with it anymore."

Steward sees Tyson slowing noticeably. "You watch him when he breaks from a clinch, he takes quite a few seconds to get organized, needs a little time to regroup, and then he just throws the one punch at a time. There's no way for him to regain what he once had."

Most think that Tyson's decline has much to do with a loss of discipline and desire, which is perhaps inevitable as a fighter grows rich and famous.

"When you make that kind of money," says Atlas, "

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...99/2/index.htm

So according to you: Gil Clancy, Edddie Futch, Butch Lewis, Steve Lott, Manny Steward and Teddy Atlas dont know what they are talking about as well, right?

[Toney616]

Mike Tyson: The only fighter who chose to end his own prime.

What a joke. A fighter is "past their prime" when their body isn't physically able to do the things it could do previously, due to age and nature. Not because they decided to take it easy.

Most think that Tyson's decline has much to do with a loss of discipline and desire, which is perhaps inevitable as a fighter grows rich and famous.

"When you make that kind of money," says Atlas, "it's not abnormal to slow down a gear or two."

This dereliction of technique is not easy to explain. Steward suggests that it is actually the result of the aging process, a natural regression. At 24? "I never saw him being successful past 26," says Steward. "His style was strictly youth and instinct, based on driving through people. It never allowed for a long career. All youth and aggression, fighting with your head up front. The second you slow down, for whatever reason, you lose it. Because your face, which is 10 inches closer, isn't getting out of the way like when you were young and fast. You just can't get away with it anymore."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...99/2/index.htm

[sonnyboyx2]

And a month later, check the dates on the link I posted, the courts overruled the WBA. You couldn't be more wrong on this. Sorry.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2000/0413/boxing.html

"The WBA had sanctioned Lewis-Grant. But King said that was a violation of its own rules for mandatory defences. Grant (31-0) is the WBA's number 5 contender. Ironically, it was Lewis (35-1-1) who had initiated the court case in a bid to have his deal with King overturned. Lewis claimed that King had coerced him into signing a fraudulent contract to fight then number-one contender Henry Akinwande or the leading "available contender" even though King knew that Akinwande was suffering from Hepatitis B and not likely to fight any time soon."

it is you who is wrong... Lewis mandatory No1 challenger in the WBA was John Ruiz and Lewis never had any intention of ever fighting him just like he never had any intention of fighting IBF No1 contender Chris Byrd or fight a rematch as he promised with Vitali Klitschko.

[Jim Jeffries]

it is you who is wrong... Lewis mandatory No1 challenger in the WBA was John Ruiz and Lewis never had any intention of ever fighting him just like he never had any intention of fighting IBF No1 contender Chris Byrd or fight a rematch as he promised with Vitali Klitschko.

So Lennox ducked Ruiz and Byrd now? That's interesting.


Overall, I'd say Holyfield, Tyson and Lewis. Lewis' size and Evander being undisputed at CW and being a tiny HW being factors.

But as HWs I'd say Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield, though Tyson and Holyfield are interchangeable.

[Toney616]

So Lennox ducked Ruiz and Byrd now? That's interesting.

The HBO team during Holyfield-Byrd fight, talk about Lewis vacating his IBF belt to avoid fighting Byrd

[Jim Jeffries]

The HBO team during Holyfield-Byrd fight, talk about Lewis vacating his IBF belt to avoid fighting Byrd

I'll have to check that out. I've heard of Lewis ducking people before, like Wlad around 2000-2002, I just never believed any of them. Certainly hurts Lennox's rankings if true though.

[Sugarj]

I dont doubt that Lewis didn't want to fight Byrd or Ruiz:

Nobody looked good against Byrd till he was 'shot'. Even Ibeabuchi, when stopping him in five had trouble with his style. I have no doubt that Lewis would have won a fight with Byrd, I doubt that he would have feared him either. Likewise Ruiz, Lewis would have been a big favorite going into both fights.

But at that stage in his career (early noughties) Lewis was wanting the bigger money fights and was prepared to vacate titles to fight more lucrative opponents like Grant, Tua and later on Tyson (who all will have commanded higher paydays for Lewis and possibly have been lower risk opponents than Byrd or Ruiz?!).

Props to Lewis for actually getting in the ring with Vitali though, late substitute or not.