What would Prime Tyson vs Prime Tua be like?

[Toney616]

So you figure Tyson's greatness of defense from these examples of his performance against nobodies ?

Are you telling me you can't gauge a fighters defensive abilites without him being in the ring with another great fighter?

So you like repeating the same things in 2 consecutive posts ?
I will feel satisfied by replying only once , even if you double post everything with slight changes in the essence.
Holyfield fought a dirty fight against Tyson butting and clinching when hurt.
A typical HW Holyfield fight.

Maybe the reason I do it is because you refuse to answer them. So far you have yet to talk about one Tyson fight which took part during his prime, the period that is of concern in this thread

Holyfield didnt headbutt as much as people make out, its during his second fight with Lewis that he really puts on a headbutting clinic.

During the Tyson fight he basically had to watch out for Tyson's left hooks, which Tyson telegraphed by leaning to the left before throwing them. Then he was able to block it with his right glove and counter with a straight left or left hook. He would also tie Tyson up on the inside and stop him from going to work

[Frighteous]

Tyson's best 'prime' match was Berbick, or maybe one could argue Ruddock.

The reason people love him is because they're awed by his prime/middle years fighting spirit and killer instinct, the crazy speed and power is just an amplified way of showing the public the killer instinct(compared to average speed/power style fighter)

[Frighteous]

Are you telling me you can't gauge a fighters defensive abilites without him being in the ring with another great fighter?

Depends. Last night was an excellent example. Not Chavez, but Barrera looked very well defensively last night, and it was because of who he's fighting. I'm not saying Barrera is like Duddy, he does have good defense. But Barrera looked like god last night especially at his ring age. Because of the low skill level of his opponent.

[Toney616]

Depends. Last night was an excellent example. Not Chavez, but Barrera looked very well defensively last night, and it was because of who he's fighting. I'm not saying Barrera is like Duddy, he does have good defense. But Barrera looked like god last night especially at his ring age. Because of the low skill level of his opponent.

Good point

off topic: do you think barrera has anything left in the tank? I didnt watch his fight last night

[Frighteous]

For what Arum is going to use him for, absolutely. He'll eventually go up against Soto on one of these Mexican events, or maybe on HBO? I don't even know if he still has an HBO contract, if not that then another Latin card.


He looked like he still has some nice pop, mixes in his shots well especially that left liver punch. He was throwing it like he did vs McKinney. His jab is on point, pretty stiff and looks like it's improving. He's using it more for sure.

[frankenfrank]

Rahman:
Jeff Wooden: won 18 (KO 11) + lost 8 (KO 3) + drawn 0
never won a legit belt
Corrie Sanders:won 42 (KO 31) + lost 4 (KO 4)
beat Wladimir Klitschko to get the WBO belt, lost it during his 1st defense to Vitali
****y Ryann:55 (KO 44) + lost 10 (KO 6) + drawn 0
never won a legit belt

I cant be bothered to do the rest but the facts should speak for themselves.
With the exception of Saunders those guys are basically journeymen as well.

So Sanders is not a journeyman and Rahman whom stopped Sanders and Lewis is a journeyman ?

He drew with one of the worst versions of Toney and you claim that as an achievement?

That version also outpointed Dominick Guinn and stopped Evander Holyfield whom may have been shot , but fact he fought on years later.
And even gave troubles and lasted the distance twice with a prime Sam Peter.

Moorer:
That was won of the worst versions of Holyfield, who was suffering from heart problems. It was obvious from that performance that Moorer was never going to have the belt for long.

I am not saying Moorer is even a top 30 HW all time , but he was a fine HW.

Jirov was past prime after his war with Toney and had no business in the hw divison. as his hw record shows


The rest of the guys you mentioned are not very good

Ruiz is dreadful, got blasted in in 20 seconds against Tua, he stunk out the ring with his hitting and holding.

Ruiz , Moorer , Obed Sullivan , Darroll Wilson , Gary Bell were stopped in 1 round only by Tua. In fact all of Ruiz's , Moorer's and Sullivan's other stoppage losses were not even close to 1 round.

Tua is also the quickest to stop Nate Tubbs.
And I forgot to add Dannell Nicholson to Tua's list of stoppage victories.

Doesn't matter he is still is boring as hell. Ducked Byrd and messed Vitali around

didn't know this argument is about excitement

Wooden, Grant and Rahman are not very good. The guy was getting koed by journeyman as well

I rate boxers on their skill set and resume, none of these fighters you mentioned fit my criteria for being a decent fighter.

He was supposed to have been in the best conditon of his life he came into the ring weighing 233, his lightest weight in years. During the fight the commentators made a big deal of how he trained so hard for that fight.

Tua's problem in that fight was his over training which reflected in his weight which was so low (for him)

Just because he koed guys late in fights doesnt mean he doesnt fade either its not the same thing. Maybe those guys gassed more than he did for example or made a mistake later on in those fights.

So Tua fades less than other heavies , it was my point really.
How many fighters did Tyson stop late , and were they of any better quality than Tua's late stoppages ?

Dude to keep your skills at their peak you have to constantly practice them, or you will forget them. I shouldn't have to mention this to you.

So what do you think Tyson did with his other trainers , scratched his balls ?
Do you think he and Freddie Roach played Street Fighter together ?

Which ones? Also were they fights when he was still with Rooney?

Spinks , Holyfield1 , Douglas , Bruno 1,2 , Berbick , Smith , Buster Mathis jr. , Frazier jr. , Seldon , Tillman (both amateurs and the pro fight) , Orlin Norris ,
and a few more which I forgot against whom.

It depends on the period the fights took place, this thread is about Prime Tyson so any fight without Rooney in his corner doesnt count.

So a prime Tyson (whom never lost according to your definition) is the Tyson of less than half of his important fights , amazing.
Damn , the Tyson of the Fergusson fight seems unstoppable.

You have said you have watched 10 fights which include Holyfield, Lewis and Douglas? None of these fights took place during his prime

Not according to your twisted definition , I do agree with you about Lewis , but again , Lewis is 1 year older than Tyson.

Which ones?

You have yet to make a case for Tua's power being greater than Ruddock's. What top fighters has Tua ever koed? None.

Ruiz , Moorer and Maskaev all had belts btw.
Other top fighters , except of Rahman , Byrd , Lewis and Ibeabuchi avoided Tua. Ibeabuchi was not considered a top fighter when he faced Tua , but was he any less dangerous than Ray Mercer and Bruce Seldon ?
Everyone with a little functioning brain knows Tua would have devoured them.

The best fighters he faced all went the distance with him, that in itself should tell you something

The best fighters Tyson faced stopped him .

Byrd was giving up over 15 lbs, what did you expect him to do, trade with a guy who has one punch ko power? Byrd basically stood in front of Tua and used his ability to slip, block and roll with punches to defend himself. At times he was against the ropes and then he would get of them and go back into the centre of the ring, where he would use his pawing jab as a range finder for his straight lefts

So suddenly you change your opinion about how Byrd lasted Tua ?

[frankenfrank]

"I did" - No you have not.

Yes , I did , you just fail to understand as usual.

"I will not bother to browse through your nearly 3k posts.
But even if I wanted to do it , there is another problem : the platform allows me to browse only your last 500 posts.
And in your case 500 posts is 4 days , so maybe you try to flush that evidence to the past ?" No evidence shown here.

cause you flush it by spamming this thread and some more.

[Vadrigar.]

Yes , I did , you just fail to understand as usual.

cause you flush it by spamming this thread and some more.

"Yes , I did , you just fail to understand as usual" - No you didn't. try harder.

"cause you flush it by spamming this thread and some more" - You're making the assumption that the evidence was there, something which you cant do. You have to actually bring the evidence, not assume it.

[frankenfrank]

Are you telling me you can't gauge a fighters defensive abilites without him being in the ring with another great fighter?

Green and whomever are much worse than Jeff Wooden , Dannell Nicholson , Gary Bell , Fres Oquendo , Robert Hawkins etc.
So the answer to your question is no , but I do demand some level of quality in a fighter's opponent to judge his real quality of performance on.

Maybe the reason I do it is because you refuse to answer them. So far you have yet to talk about one Tyson fight which took part during his prime, the period that is of concern in this thread

I answered everything , you just love to ask every question twice.

Holyfield didnt headbutt as much as people make out, its during his second fight with Lewis that he really puts on a headbutting clinic.

He butted Tyson and Rahman too , and then some more.

During the Tyson fight he basically had to watch out for Tyson's left hooks, which Tyson telegraphed by leaning to the left before throwing them. Then he was able to block it with his right glove and counter with a straight left or left hook. He would also tie Tyson up on the inside and stop him from going to work

[frankenfrank]

"Yes , I did , you just fail to understand as usual" - No you didn't. try harder.

"cause you flush it by spamming this thread and some more" - You're making the assumption that the evidence was there, something which you cant do. You have to actually bring the evidence, not assume it.

Well , I did.
Damn , someone cover that parrot's cage.