Lennox Lewis vs Earnie Shavers

[The plunger man]

Lewis was made to be knocked cold.

it’s your blind ignorance that really should have no part in a boxing forum.
Ali was dropped 5 times , Holmes 4 times , Louis 4 times and knocked out twice , Marciano knocked down 2 times and yet it’s Lewis who gets the flack never mind they were both huge rights hands by fighters above 230lbs.
One fight should never have been stopped and the ref was in don kings court and the other was because he didn’t allow for altitude and was to busy filming oceans 11 and never took it seriously.
Both times he avenged that loss and have never tasted the canvas against anybody else , from Tyson to Tua and from Morrison to Ruddock.
This has to stop lefty

[BKM-]

it’s your blind ignorance that really should have no part in a boxing forum.
Ali was dropped 5 times , Holmes 4 times , Louis 4 times and knocked out twice , Marciano knocked down 2 times and yet it’s Lewis who gets the flack never mind they were both huge rights hands by fighters above 230lbs.
One fight should never have been stopped and the ref was in don kings court and the other was because he didn’t allow for altitude and was to busy filming oceans 11 and never took it seriously.
Both times he avenged that loss and have never tasted the canvas against anybody else , from Tyson to Tua and from Morrison to Ruddock.
This has to stop lefty

Haha I understand your frustration mate. It's inconceivable that this myth grew so strongly. Boxing fans in general analyze situations pretty thoroughly, you'd think. But not here.

One was simply a bad stoppage like you said, and against Rahman he got up at the count of 10, and it is a known fact in the boxing world that the better you are in shape, the more punishment you are able to take and survive. Don't ask me, ask any trainer or fighter. If you're not in shape you're not gonna be able to take the same punches. If Lewis did the right thing in the first fight and took that shot, he would have gotten up earlier and maybe survived, who knows?

It's just silly really. Lewis took those losses and if he and his team believed he had a weak chin why did he face all of those powerful punchers AFTER those losses? Why was he so eager for the rematches and so easily took his revenge?

Lewis even avoided some opponents who were weak punchers like Byrd and Ruiz LOL.

But it'll get better. As time goes on Lewis will be looked at more favorably. 10-15 years ago on here it was common for old historians to play the weak chin card. They have been dying out and today, you will be challenged atleast if you come up with that nonsense.

[The plunger man]

The most underrated chin in HW history. The old guard of the boxing world has tried to hide this fact since his reign.

Any other boxer who only hits the canvas twice in 14 years(one being a very controversial stoppage on his feet, and the other getting up at the count of 10) facing all of these punchers:

Ruddock
Bruno
McCall
Morrison
Mercer
Briggs
Holyfield
Grant
Rahman
Tua
Tyson Klitschko

Would be heralded as an ATG chin. Especially since pretty much all of them hit Lennox clean on the chin.

And look at the list of punchers. Only Evander and Ali can compare with resume's.

The truth is, Lewis was too good to be true, he could fight through any means, outside or inside, technical gamesmanship or brutal brawl, unlimited amount of attributes. He didn't truly have a weakness so the boxing propagandists had to make up a weakness and blow it out of proportion. Lewis and his legacy is a big threat to everybody's #1 ATG HW.

although I put Ali above lewis .....I do think lewis would have beaten any fighter head to head.
I think they reason why the old guard put him down is because he is not American and they don’t like the fact that a non American can be the best heavyweight of all time.
Lewis had it all and i was actually at the fight when Oliver McCall beat him....I was 7 rows from ringside and that shot lifted Lewis off his feet and he actually got up on the count of 6 and the ref never even gave him a chance to hold on to his titles.
The same scenario Ali was stopped by shavers , Holmes knocked out by snipes and shavers , Marciano knocked out by Moore etc
A fact story Lewis went to the WBC convention to argue for an immediate rematch and all night the Same referee was hanging around with don king all night.
Lewis was a brilliant heavyweight and anybody who thinks he wasn’t is either blind and ignorant towards his achievements or they just won’t accept an outsider bidding for the GOAT in the heavies.

[QueensburyRules]

One was simply a bad stoppage like you said, and against Rahman he got up at the count of 10, and it is a known fact in the boxing world that

- -U toopid, more so than average.

KOed flat on his back via a 10 count vs Rahman the perfect one punch KO. One punched by McCall, beat the count only to stumble his 250 lbs into the ref.

You ever seen a fight?

[billeau2]

Haha I understand your frustration mate. It's inconceivable that this myth grew so strongly. Boxing fans in general analyze situations pretty thoroughly, you'd think. But not here.

One was simply a bad stoppage like you said, and against Rahman he got up at the count of 10, and it is a known fact in the boxing world that the better you are in shape, the more punishment you are able to take and survive. Don't ask me, ask any trainer or fighter. If you're not in shape you're not gonna be able to take the same punches. If Lewis did the right thing in the first fight and took that shot, he would have gotten up earlier and maybe survived, who knows?

It's just silly really. Lewis took those losses and if he and his team believed he had a weak chin why did he face all of those powerful punchers AFTER those losses? Why was he so eager for the rematches and so easily took his revenge?

Lewis even avoided some opponents who were weak punchers like Byrd and Ruiz LOL.

But it'll get better. As time goes on Lewis will be looked at more favorably. 10-15 years ago on here it was common for old historians to play the weak chin card. They have been dying out and today, you will be challenged atleast if you come up with that nonsense.

How about this comparison? Lewis and Liston... Both guys could have done a confirmed miracle with Jesus watching...and would not have been any more liked by the American Public. Holmes, also to a degree. Liston, who was probably, intially as much of a reprobate as Tyson, yet the public embraced Tyson for his killer ways in the ring... Liston came back after winning the championship to an empty runway... But I digress.

Lewis, who is a sensative sort, found out how true this was, when he asked for some sympathy against Vitali... A fight where he showed that he did have a chin BTW and showed heart in spades...so did Vitalie.

So people don't bother to look at the facts, and they probably never will.

[OldTerry]

Not so quick, now. Didn't this fight already happen with a more skilled version of Lennox, ala Larry Holmes? Sure Lennox has a slight edge in power over Larry, but nothing else. Lennox sure doesn't have the granite chin that took Larry to the count of 8 to get off the canvas.

I don't think Lennox would want to get close enough to land anything huge for fear of getting getting hit with something even bigger. A decision for Lennox, but a nailbiter all the way waiting for The Acorn to land a tree on Lennox.

Shavers hit Larry so hard that he has a knot on his head down to this very day. This is a true story as told by Holmes. In the video the lump is evident.

[OldTerry]

Shavers is a myth.

Shavers was definitely not a great fighter, not by any means. However his power was no myth. Larry Holmes (as well as other fighters) said that the hardest he had ever been hit was by Ernie Shavers.

[OldTerry]

I have it slightly different but don't bother not picking these days unless it's totally off the wall. And you're right about Queenie, the old man definitely has a screw loose.

My list

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Holmes
4. Foreman
5. Lewis
6. Holyfield
7. Tyson
8. Wlad
9. Liston
10. Frazier
11. Marciano
12.Dempsey

Yes, your list nails it!

[OldTerry]

although I put Ali above lewis .....I do think lewis would have beaten any fighter head to head.
I think they reason why the old guard put him down is because he is not American and they don’t like the fact that a non American can be the best heavyweight of all time.
Lewis had it all and i was actually at the fight when Oliver McCall beat him....I was 7 rows from ringside and that shot lifted Lewis off his feet and he actually got up on the count of 6 and the ref never even gave him a chance to hold on to his titles.
The same scenario Ali was stopped by shavers , Holmes knocked out by snipes and shavers , Marciano knocked out by Moore etc
A fact story Lewis went to the WBC convention to argue for an immediate rematch and all night the Same referee was hanging around with don king all night.
Lewis was a brilliant heavyweight and anybody who thinks he wasn’t is either blind and ignorant towards his achievements or they just won’t accept an outsider bidding for the GOAT in the heavies.

Marciano knocked out by Moore? Never happened. Down briefly and buzzed but never in serious trouble. In fact Marciano's strongest asset was his physical fitness which equated to being able to be as strong without losing power in the later rounds of a fight as in the earlier ones. Marciano's opponents always lost the war of attrition.

[BKM-]

How about this comparison? Lewis and Liston... Both guys could have done a confirmed miracle with Jesus watching...and would not have been any more liked by the American Public. Holmes, also to a degree. Liston, who was probably, intially as much of a reprobate as Tyson, yet the public embraced Tyson for his killer ways in the ring... Liston came back after winning the championship to an empty runway... But I digress.

Lewis, who is a sensative sort, found out how true this was, when he asked for some sympathy against Vitali... A fight where he showed that he did have a chin BTW and showed heart in spades...so did Vitalie.

So people don't bother to look at the facts, and they probably never will.

True. The plunger man believes that for lewis it's because of his nationalities. I personally believe that it's because he was the first Super-HW to become an ATG.

He broke the barrier so to speak. Men his size were supposed to be too clumsy and uncoordinated to be as great as the smaller HW technicians before him.

People who are passionate about a section of history wether it's in sport or other forms of competition, don't like big change. Especially when it's enforced by a single individual. Lewis was that individual for boxing. He paved the way for the Klitschko's, Joshua, Fury etc.

He hasn't been forgiven for it yet. But one day he will be seen as a pioneer.