Stanley Ketchel or Salvador Sanchez?

[Clegg]

Who do you rate higher on your all-time list?

[BOLLOCKS]

Sanchez....

[Obama]

Good question. Ketchel, for his ability to slay larger as well as smaller men.

[Steak]

In his few years of being a champ, Salvador Sanchez beat two ATGs in Wilfredo Gomez and Azumah Nelson, along with an easy HOFer Danny Lopez twice. Not to mention very tough challengers Ruben Castillo and Juan LaPorte.

Ketchel is pretty good, but I dont think his record matches up with that.
Other than Billy Papke and a fading Jack O'Brien, who exactly did Ketchel beat that makes him Salvador Sanchez level?

[Obama]

In his few years of being a champ, Salvador Sanchez beat two ATGs in Wilfredo Gomez and Azumah Nelson, along with an easy HOFer Danny Lopez twice. Not to mention very tough challengers Ruben Castillo and Juan LaPorte.

Ketchel is pretty good, but I dont think his record matches up with that.
Other than Billy Papke and a fading Jack O'Brien, who exactly did Ketchel beat that makes him Salvador Sanchez level?

O'Brien drew with Heavyweight Champion Jack Johnson in between his two fights with Ketchel. Not to mention O'Brien was waaaay better than Gomez or Nelson..but that's another debate.

While you wouldn't really know the people he was fighting, Ketchel started out as a WW, claimed the WW title in 1907, and defeated a top Heavyweight contender by 1910 when he KOed Porky Dan Flynn. Top WW to top HW in 3 years without putting on much weight is pretty impressive.

Sanchez mostly beat on smaller guys to be honest.

[Steak]

Danny Lopez had been a featherweight pretty much all his career, and had a number of quality title defences under his belt before fighting Sanchez. hardly 'a smaller guy'.

Azumah's lowest weight was featherweight, and apart from winning the featherweight title and defending it multiple times moved up to super featherweight and did the same thing. then went up again to lightweight and gave Pernell Whitaker a fairly difficult fight.
surely not a 'smaller guy'.

Juan LaPorte's lowest weight class was featherweight, he own a title there, and had a few successful runs at super featherweight. he even challenged for titles at 140lbs later on.
not a smaller guy.

Ruben Castillo gave Alexis arguello a hard fight at super featherweight before he even challenged Sanchez at featherweight, and had a successful run at super feather.
not a smaller guy.

the only 'smaller guy' Sanchez beat was Gomez, who was only a weight class below and went on to win a featherweight title and a super featherweight title(although he probably shouldnt havent have deserved the decision in that one).

and going from WW to HW back in those days isnt as impressive to me. look at Tommy Burns, he was HW champ and was around 170lbs for his fights. the HW division back then, in all honestly, was made up of guys that werent actually HWs or just big guys who werent too skilled. I dont even think Jack Johnson was nearly as good as most people make him out to be, based on footage and record. its not like Ketchel beat a really quality HW, he was just...meh.

his wins over O'Brien are nice enough, but even then, O'Brien was pretty much a middleweight himself in reality. and not even a year after their fights, O'brien pretty much flatlined.

personally, I would choose Sanchez's two wins over ATGs over any weight jumping Ketchel did, because I think that quality of fighters is more important than jumping weight. it might sound like Im being unfair regarding Ketchel's wins, but honestly, the man didnt beat any ATGs, did he?

how you think O'Brien is better than Wilfredo Gomez and Nelson is beyond me, honestly. Ive seen footage of O'Brien and have tried to give him credit, but cmon...
putting him side to side to guys like Wilfredo Gomez...its not close.

[Obama]

You wasted a lot of time with that post. You're looking at the weight divisions the guys fought in an not the actual size of the fighters. You also have no respect for the past in general, so arguing with you is pointless. O'Brien's resume speaks for itself, only a guy with no appreciation for old timers would dare rate someone like Gomez over him. Their accomplishments don't remotely compare in the slightest.

[gibo]

Those who know the sport of boxing, would never compare Ketchel with a fighter whos only claim to fame is that he died prematurely. Sanchez was good, but not great. If Sanchez was great, Valero is HOF!!!!!

[Steak]

You wasted a lot of time with that post. You're looking at the weight divisions the guys fought in an not the actual size of the fighters. You also have no respect for the past in general, so arguing with you is pointless. O'Brien's resume speaks for itself, only a guy with no appreciation for old timers would dare rate someone like Gomez over him. Their accomplishments don't remotely compare in the slightest.

this is ridiculous. youre trying to tell me that this guy

is a far better fighter than this guy?


give me a ****ing break. its like you dont accept the footage at all, and just go by newspaper description and take it as fact that theyre the best ever. they may have been the best ever at the time, but a lot of the fighters(especially the heavier ones) were very undeveloped back then imo.
I dont hate 'old timers' automatically, I give them a chance and see what theyre made of. guys like Archie Moore and Gene Tunney I can definitely give respect to, but O'Brien? he was a pioneer, and I respect him for that, but there is a big gap in skill.

the fact that you are saying that someone as great as Wilfredo Gomez 'doesnt compare' to O'Brien is laughable, even if I believed that O'Brien was one of the best ever. Gomez is the best super bantamweight of all time. you cant say O'Brien is the best light heavyweight of all time, surely.

oh, and Sal Sanchez's opponents were at least as big as him. if youre automaticlaly going to put down his record just because he happened to fight at a lower weight class, then shame on you. although this whole p4p thing in boxing is a little wacky, thats generally how we rate fighters.

[TheGreatA]

Two underrated wins for Ketchel are his KO's over twins Jack Sullivan and Mike Sullivan. Jack defeated future HW champ Tommy Burns and was regarded by Tommy Ryan as one of the best pound for pound, while Mike was a highly regarded welterweight champion.

Ketchel KO'd all the title claimants and established himself as the undisputed champion. Sanchez fought tough competition too but I would have liked to see him face the likes of Eusebio Pedroza and Alexis Arguello, not that there was much of a window for the latter match-up. Unfortunately both of their lives were cut short.