Roy Jones Jr Or Tony Canzoneri?

[JAB5239]

Why are you still avoiding the question? I ask you twice and you refuse to give an answer.

At least with me, I back up whatever I have to say.

Whatever. I'll leave you in your biased state of mind, now.

Why would I answer a question I've answered a thousand times already, in a thread that has nothing to do with Joe Louis and to a troll like yourself? Just let it go and grow up already.

[FunkyFresh]

Why would I answer a question I've answered a thousand times already, in a thread that has nothing to do with Joe Louis and to a troll like yourself? Just let it go and grow up already.

The thread involves Roy Jones and I'm asking you to explain why you bash him for something, when you let the exact same thing slide for one of your favorite fighters.

[JAB5239]

The thread involves Roy Jones and I'm asking you to explain why you bash him for something, when you let the exact same thing slide for one of your favorite fighters.

And this is exactly why you're a troll who never gets any respect, because you try to slide these lies past people like they're ******. I'll make a deal with you, you post the link where I "bashed" Jones and I'll answer your trolling question. If you can't post that link you just stfu and move on. Hows that? Deal?

[FunkyFresh]

And this is exactly why you're a troll who never gets any respect, because you try to slide these lies past people like they're ******. I'll make a deal with you, you post the link where I "bashed" Jones and I'll answer your trolling question. If you can't post that link you just stfu and move on. Hows that? Deal?

No problem:

Im on board with this, Canzoneri simply beat more, and of better quality opponents. If Jones had more quality opponents around he may very well have ranked ahead of Canzoneri, but we don't give points for could have's, only for fights fought. I would expect a lot of disagreement on this though.

You bash him for not fighting enough quality opponents, when the same thing is constantly said about Louis. But, you let it slide for Louis.

I'm asking you to tell me why you let it slide for Louis, but you refuse to answer.

Just admit it. You're biased.

[McGrain]

Let's here it, then. Why does Louis get so much credit for not having a strong resume but Jones doesn't?

In fairness, Louis has Walcott, who is probaly in the top 20 HW's ever, and Schmeling, who I actually have at 14. He has Baer, who is to 25 and Sharkey, who made my top 40. Baer and Sharkey were perhaps not themselves, but Walcott was in his absolute prime, and Schmeling wasn't far from his.

In short, Louis has great fighters on his resume who were great when he fought them.

[McGrain]

You bash him for not fighting enough quality opponents, when the same thing is constantly said about Louis. But, you let it slide for Louis.

In addition, with the arguable exception of Ray, Louis cleaned out his division. In Benn, Eubank, G-Man, DM, Hopkins II and Toney at LHW, Ray missed out on the best of his generation.


Note - I don't want to debate with you the ins and outs of this. I accept that not all of this is Roy's fault. For example, Benn was in no way his problem - he didn't want any part of King and he was a King fighter. I actualy respect that. I'm not saying he "should've done" this or "could have" done that. What i'm saying is that Louis tested himself against the very best that his division had to offer and smashed them up. Jones missed out on most of the best.

[JAB5239]

No problem:



You bash him for not fighting enough quality opponents, when the same thing is constantly said about Louis. But, you let it slide for Louis.

I'm asking you to tell me why you let it slide for Louis, but you refuse to answer.

Just admit it. You're biased.

You're an idiot if you call that "bashing". Maybe you just don't understand the meaning of the word. Let me help you.


bash
   /bæʃ/ Show Spelled[bash] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to strike with a crushing or smashing blow.
2.
Chiefly British, Canadian. to hurl harsh verbal abuse at.

So....now that you have shown no link, have no proof and agreed to my terms you will leave this thread, right?

[JAB5239]

In addition, with the arguable exception of Ray, Louis cleaned out his division. In Benn, Eubank, G-Man, DM, Hopkins II and Toney at LHW, Ray missed out on the best of his generation.


Note - I don't want to debate with you the ins and outs of this. I accept that not all of this is Roy's fault. For example, Benn was in no way his problem - he didn't want any part of King and he was a King fighter. I actualy respect that. I'm not saying he "should've done" this or "could have" done that. What i'm saying is that Louis tested himself against the very best that his division had to offer and smashed them up. Jones missed out on most of the best.

Ray didn't really come to prominence till the end of Joe's career, right? I've also read Charley Burley (a middleweight) knocked him cold while sparring.

[FunkyFresh]

In fairness, Louis has Walcott, who is probaly in the top 20 HW's ever, and Schmeling, who I actually have at 14. He has Baer, who is to 25 and Sharkey, who made my top 40. Baer and Sharkey were perhaps not themselves, but Walcott was in his absolute prime, and Schmeling wasn't far from his.

In short, Louis has great fighters on his resume who were great when he fought them.

Even though Louis knocked out Walcott in their second fight, let's not forget that he should've lost the first fight.

Baer had a broken his right hand 3 weeks before the fight, in an exhibition bout. He clearly wasn't ready for the fight.

Schmeling and Sharkey was past it, but they're still good wins, I'll admit.

Compare that to Jones' four best wins:

He beat Hopkins at middleweight, who Hopkins himself is without question a top 10 middleweight. Sometimes even considered to be a top 5 middleweight. And while he may have still been a bit green, so was Jones.

He beat the reigning super middleweight champion in Toney, in his first title fight in the division. Many consider Toney to be a P4P all-time great.

Even though he was past his prime, he absolutely dominated McCallum in his first light heavyweight title fight. McCallum is another fighter that many consider to be a P4P all-time great.

Finally, he beat Ruiz for a heavyweight title. While Ruiz isn't considered to be an all-time great heavyweight, it's certainly impressive for a fighter who fought as low as light middleweight to become a heavyweight champion.

I'm not trying to say that Jones deserves to be ranked higher than Louis. I'm just asking why Gabby bashes Jones for not having "enough quality opponents", when the same thing is often said about Louis.

You seem like a good poster and certainly one to have an interesting discussion with. But my focus is mainly on Gabby, who started this whole thing.

[McGrain]

Ray didn't really come to prominence till the end of Joe's career, right? I've also read Charley Burley (a middleweight) knocked him cold while sparring.

Yeah, the Burley story is almost certainy true. I don't believe Ray was ever the #1 contender for the title.