Oscar DeLa Hoya VS Roberto Duran

[CarlosG815]

Oscar's chin is amazing, but (and this isn't directed at you Wmute...God, you have to be so PC these days) Leonard was seriously one of the toughest dudes I've ever seen!

He really was like an Ali, but didn't fight a Hearns or Norris later on and didn't fight as brutal guys in general.

Personally, if Oscar folds under a Hopkins body shot and Leonard doesn't fold or even back down from Duran's greatest body shots over fifteen horrid, insane, psychotic rounds of some of the worst (and best if you know what I mean) body punching you'll ever see.....I can envisage Oscar being, if not knocked down, at least very badly hurt and punished to the point that he can't fight properly anymore.

I know Hop and Duran are different and Hop was a MW, but Duran's body shots were much more brutal and consistent over a fight.

Yeah?

Oscar has taken much worse shots in his career. It was simply a hard shot, in the right place, at the wrong time when he wasn't ready for it. That wasn't Oscar at his best, and he was fighting a much bigger guy. If I remember correctly Hopkins came in near 170 for that fight, significantly bigger than Oscar.

Look at the beatings Duran took when he was older and in higher weights? That was an awful part of his career, and he would be considered a bum if that's what we based his career or his chin on.

[CarlosG815]

Oh man..... I did! Go read it again.

Ok, so you say you think he's a top three 140 fighter but **** one e for saying he's a top five 140 fighter?

See, this is what I don't get? I don;t know what you're getting at, at times. Bringing Tszyu up? We both he is an ATG at 140. Why do you then give me ****e about it as if I'm a moron when you think even better of him!!!!!!!?

Jesus, I just don't understand any of this anymore.

I'm done.

The misunderstanding is simply that I was never ****ting on you for believing Kostya was a top 5 atg JWW, that fact didn't even go into my thought process before posting anything.

[BennyST]

Because you went on a rant about Tommy Hearns when I believed you knew I wasn't talking about Oscar having more punching power, but were trying to purposely twist my words to discredit my entire post.

I thought it was pretty clear that I was talking about DLH having comparable power to Duran, and not the Hitman.

I honestly thought (scouts honour for ****s sake!) you were talking about Hearns in comparison to Oscar.

I'm sorry. Really. I didn't know one misread post could get you so worked up. I misread it and I apologise and, just like in the other post, I shall simply refer you to the previously written stuff for other ideas and debates because this one has just gotten weird and I'm too sloshed to make sense or write correct replies without.

[CarlosG815]

I honestly thought (scouts honour for ****s sake!) you were talking about Hearns in comparison to Oscar.

I'm sorry. Really. I didn't know one misread post could get you so worked up. I misread it and I apologise and, just like in the other post, I shall simply refer you to the previously written stuff for other ideas and debates because this one has just gotten weird and I'm too sloshed to make sense or write correct replies without.

LOL, I don't get worked up on these forums. I just like to smack talk back and have fun.

[wmute]

Oscar was good with both hands, the left hook was so devastating that it overshadows his other punching abilities, as that is all people notice.

He did not use his right hand until later in his career. By then he also rarely fought 12 rounds at the same pace.

Leonard used both hands for 15 rounds.

Better D? Hmmm. Thats your opinion but I feel that is debatable. I don't remember many times where Oscar dropped his arms and bobbled his head around. I think Oscar had a great defense.

Leonard clowned, Whitaker (among others with great D) clowned all the time and did not get hit. what's your point?

Oscar had the better chin.

I have seen prime Oscar on his ass more often than I have seen prime Leonard, so that's your opinion...

Ring IQ is another thing that's being under rated that I thought about but didn't bring up. Oscar was very smart in training and being able to train just right for his opponent. He was extremely composed and had the ability to adjust to his opponents style in the middle of the fight.

Can you name me some of these adjustments?

He was not a very composed fighter. He wasted ungodly amount of energies.

Leonard has slightly better footwork (why do people think Oscar was so slow on his feet? I never saw this. Dancing like Ali and Leonard wasn't his style, but he was still very quick on his feet) and leonard does have the faster hands without question (although Oscar is very fast).

Not saying Oscar had bad footwork, just saying Leonard's was better (ask Hagler and Duran on his evasive maneuvers, ask Hearns about his ability to get up close)

You remembered many of the important aspects that make a fighter great, but you're not rating Oscar properly. His record and accomplishments speak for themselves.

You forget things like self control outside the ring and heart.

Oscar was never a slob outside of the ring and always kept himself in respectable shape, unlike Duran, who was pretty much the exact opposite.

Oscar had the heart of a champion his entire career. He took a seat once while he was old and weight drained to Manny Pacquiao, where he was taking a massive beating and in the condition he entered the ring it may have been dangerous for him to continue, so I'll never hold that against him.

Whereas Roberto Duran quit in the middle of a fight because he was frustrated and said "I'm behind on the cards. This guy is frustrating me to the point where I'm sure I can't knock him out, I might as well quit now because I know he'll give me a rematch."

See those are some things you're forgetting.

Oscar would fight his heart out and somehow come up with a KO. In the instance of Trinidad, I feel that Oscar was so ahead on the cards, he had fought a battle, he should have been able to stop trying for a KO and still get the victory over Trinidad, but he was robbed. That's the only instance I can think of that he put it on cruise but at the time he made the decision to do so, I think it was the right call. In hindsight, he should have fought more, but at the time it seemed like an ok idea, as he had the fight in the bag.

How is Duran relevant to my post?

[Snopkins]

To acknowledge him as a top 3 140lb fighter,you'd actually have to know of that divisions history.Judging by your overall ignorance of the sport and it's history,I'd say you really haven't got a clue.


In regards to De La Hoya's heart,well,if Jim Lampley and the other cheerleaders at hbo said De La Hoya was the bravest,greatest warrior to ever grace the ring,then it must be true.

Perhaps it's worth noting that De La Hoya backed off from Quartey in the twelfth round of their fight.He had Quartey right where he wanted and because he felt a little tired he simply backed off and didn't throw another punch after that.

[CarlosG815]

How is Duran relevant to my post?

woops, forgot that we were talking about SRL for a minute there.

I think those are important points when comparing DLH to Duran though.

[wmute]

woops, forgot that we were talking about SRL for a minute there.

I think those are important points when comparing DLH to Duran though.

That's fair, but it's not like Oscar was the pinnacle of discipline (not as bad as a Duran or a Toney of course).

I mean... you know what I am talking about, right? It always pissed me off, I am sure it bothered you too. Oscar slowing down at the end of a fight. That is a combination of lack of conditioning and fighting nervous. Oscar could have done so much better in some of his fights if he got that part of his game together

[CarlosG815]

To acknowledge him as a top 3 140lb fighter,you'd actually have to know of that divisions history.Judging by your overall ignorance of the sport and it's history,I'd say you really haven't got a clue.


In regards to De La Hoya's heart,well,if Jim Lampley and the other cheerleaders at hbo said De La Hoya was the bravest,greatest warrior to ever grace the ring,then it must be true.

Perhaps it's worth noting that De La Hoya backed off from Quartey in the twelfth round of their fight.He had Quartey right where he wanted and because he felt a little tired he simply backed off and didn't throw another punch after that.

Says the troll who thinks Joe Frazier is a bum.

I don't follow that division but I still know of the greats that fight in those classes, as that isn't very hard to follow.

[CarlosG815]

That's fair, but it's not like Oscar was the pinnacle of discipline (not as bad as a Duran or a Toney of course).

I mean... you know what I am talking about, right? It always pissed me off, I am sure it bothered you too. Oscar slowing down at the end of a fight. That is a combination of lack of conditioning and fighting nervous. Oscar could have done so much better in some of his fights if he got that part of his game together

After the Trinidad fight I couldn't eat for 2 days. Not only that, but I had to deal with a Puerto Rican at work. I was pissed, yeah, but at the time, I thought all he had to do was not get KO'd or knocked down the last 2 rounds.