Is Joe Louis A Top 5 ATG?

[GJC]

Mick, I would like to hear your reasons rating Wilde above Louis.

I'll have a go!
Whether or not you regard Joe Louis as the best ever HW and I think the maojority rate him under Ali few can come up with a better Fly than Jimmy Wilde. 150 fights with 5 defeats the last of which was a come back after 2 years of retirement. The rest of his defeats were where he was giving away around half a stone in weight (quite a bit for a natural flyweight)
100 KO's don't think he lost his first fight in 80, whilst the majority of his fights were in Britain he went to the States and won there too.
Some fighter Jimmy Wilde and he should be in anyone's top 20 p4p in my view

[bklynboy]

Yes Or No and explain the reason behind your answer.

No. He's a TOP 3 heavyweight (I would have him at 2 behind Ali).

But SRR, Armstrong, Greb are immediate first three.

And I think that Gans, Langford are also.

And what about Benny Leonard, Willie Pep?

Ali can also be placed above him.

Shoot didn't Nat Fleischer have him .... just checked, from the 1970 edition
of The Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia, Nat Fleischer has Louis at 6.

Heavyweights:
1 - Jack Johnson
2 - James J. Jeffries
3 - Bob Fitzsimmons
4 - Jack Dempsey
5 - James J. Corbett
6 - Joe Louis
7 - Sam Langford
8 - Gene Tunney
9 - Max Schmeling
10- Rocky Marciano

I can't even begin to see Jeffries and Fizsimmons above Louis and Ali isn't even in his TOP 10 so there are problems with this list.

So to answer your question NO, I don't think Louis is a TOP 5 ATG.

[mickey malone]

Mick, I would like to hear your reasons rating Wilde above Louis.

Out of pity lol.. The poor little chap couldn't find many opponents in his own weight-class, so he took on lightweights instead.. 100 career KO's for a flyweight is obscene!.. I think that alone puts him in the top 10, but I have to confess of knowing little if anything about most of his opponents..

[DeepSleep]

No I think he isn't quite up that high. In a thread on here Poet pointed out that Louis lacks a win against an in prime top 15 HW of all time. Now when he is being compared to his contemporaries at heavyweight that isn't that big of a deal since many of the heavyweight greats don't have any but when compared to the P4P ATG's I think in order to be up in the top 5 of the list you have to have some wins over other in prime ATG's.

[r.burgundy]

Yes Or No and explain the reason behind your answer.

top 5?god no.top 15 is more reasonable
ali
ray robinson
leonard
armstrong
duran

[Sugarj]

Hi Jerseysugar, I could think of alot more than five ATG boxers that I would rate ahead of Louis, but here is a random five:

Muhammad Ali
Ray Robinson
Roy Jones Jnr
Roberto Duran
Julio Cesar Chavez

Of course I really like the Armstrongs, Grebs, Johnsons, Moores and Peps, but I thought I'd throw in a couple of modern greats too.

[Southpaw Great]

Hi Jerseysugar, I could think of alot more than five ATG boxers that I would rate ahead of Louis, but here is a random five:

Muhammad Ali
Ray Robinson
Roy Jones Jnr
Roberto Duran
Julio Cesar Chavez

Of course I really like the Armstrongs, Grebs, Johnsons, Moores and Peps, but I thought I'd throw in a couple of modern greats too.

Hey Sugar.

Chavez And Jones. Please Explain

[Sugarj]

Hey Jerseysugar,

Jones: Unbeaten as a pro for 14 years. Decimated opponents in four weight divisions in ten years mixing in world class (1993-2003). Arguably pound for pound best for a decade. Only blip being a DQ for hitting Griffin when he was down and clearly on the way to a KO win. Beat other ATG fighters Hopkins and Toney and several other world champions.

Chavez: Unbeaten in 14 years as a pro, ten years undefeated in world class. Went 80 odd fights undefeated. Pound for pound rated number one for several years.


Problem with poor Joe Louis was that he didn't really beat any ATG fighters. Walcott jumps to mind, Conn was too small really. But that aside he beat alot of ex champs well on the slide and had rather too many easy opponents in his title reign. Still an amazing legend of the sport and an idol of mine but I would rate Jones and Chavez higher.

[Southpaw Great]

Cool......SugarJ!

[boxingbuff]

No,not a top 5

SRR
Duran
Ali
Greb
SRL