ATG Fighters who are classed as "Rubbish" coz of one Defeat

[11wordisbond]

Jim Jeffries after the Jack Johnson defeat
Primo Carnera after Joe Louis defeat

I belive much of Primo's wins fixed by the mob.

[studentofthegam]

I've watched the whole trilogy millions of times. When merchant asked whether it was a lucky shot or not tarver said "Hey, Knockouts happens in boxing" In another words, yeah it was lucky.

Sometimes you just get hit perfect. He's right. Ask Hatton if he thought his two ko losses had to do with luck.

studentofthegam; Hamed wasnt **** bruh. Who does he hang his hat on "Kevin Kelley". Yeah Right.

Meaning what exactly?

That Hamed was a B-list fighter who beat the **** out of D-list fighters.

Couldnt have said it better myself. Hey Mick this is your answer. Could you imagine him in with Floyd even in his prime. He couldnt get out of the way of **** against THAT SUPER QUICK Barrera.lol. Hell Marquez would make him look amateur. He wasnt terrible but doesnt belong in the convo IMO.

[mickey malone]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanYeti
That Hamed was a B-list fighter who beat the **** out of D-list fighters.

Quote: studentofthegame
Couldnt have said it better myself. Hey Mick this is your answer. Could you imagine him in with Floyd even in his prime. He couldnt get out of the way of **** against THAT SUPER QUICK Barrera.lol. Hell Marquez would make him look amateur. He wasnt terrible but doesnt belong in the convo IMO.

I agree and I disagree..

I'll go along with he isn't quite ATG, but saying he was B list is being far too harsh..
He's a classic example of an (A-) fighter who often gets soley judged on 1 defeat, and you lads are echoing that fact in your posts..

Although not ATG, Hamed is also a classic example for this conversation as well as the whole topic in general.. Just because you and I may disagree with them, many other opinions may suggest that he is an ATG.
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[r.burgundy]

Throughout Boxing History some Legendary ATG fighters suffered one devastating loss in their career that boxing fans labelled them rubbish because of that defeat... lets take a look at it and see if we can name them:

Michael Spinks 1st round KO to Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier 2nd round stoppage loss to George Foreman
Ken Norton 2nd round KO to George Foreman
Joe Louis 10rd KO loss to Max Schmeling
Muhammad Ali PTS defeat by Ken Norton
Roy Jones KO losses to Tarver, Johnson & Green
Ray Leonard KO loss to Hector Camacho

its not so much that they lost in brutal fashion as it is what happened after and during the career.

take norton for instance.people like to hype norton as some world beater,he had arguably 1 of the weakest chins in heavy history.he beat the great jerry quarry wow.he was 1-3 against ali though you can make agument for him being 2 of 3.his claim to fame is fighting ali tough for 3 fights but ali wasnt a threat to norton being that he didnt punch hard as norton was bombed out by every puncher he fought.he wasnt great at all.

in the cases of spinks,and hamed,spinks never fought again,and hamed and fought some stiff.so they get they criticism they deserve.particulary hamed cause the 1st guy he fought with a pulse kicked his ass thoroughly,and at feather their were plenty fights to me made

same with frazier.he got bombed out by big george and took a 5 year vacation.he beat some good contenders and a great champ in ali but ali posed no serious threat to joe bein as how joe could take alis punches fine and was in great shape.so giving joe all this credit for 3 tough fights with the champ is the same as giving pacman credit for beating david diaz.yes its a nice win but he posed no threat.

joe louis fought in the absolute weakest era ever and managed to get himself k.od by 1 of them.

roy couldve redeemed himself with the 3rd tarver fight but he fought like a coward and he never even bothered to rematch johnson

ray leonard was on a cane and going bald when he fought camacho.nobody really holds that against him

[BennyST]

The only guy on that list who was considered rubbish after his loss was Spinks and that was because a lot of people only knew of him because of the Tyson fight and knew nothing about his lhw reign.

Yeah, I don't get why the others are there. None of them are considered rubbish. Spinks has been forgotten as being of the modern greats of our era for that loss but the rest are all remembered as being great.

Ali? Everyone consistently rates him as the second best, or at the least top five. Joe Louis? I don't really get the question to be honest. If you had put Michael Spinks then I thoroughly dig it, but Ali, Louis, Frazier etc?

Anyway, Spinks is truly the perfect candidate for this thread.

Ken Buchanan was all but forgotten and dismissed after his loss to Duran. It's only recently that people have slowly started to remember just what an incredible fighter he was and who he beat and just how damn good he was through that era. He still isn't given nearly the credit he deserves, although he got into the HOF and everything it's still only the boxing fraternity who know about him and his great achievements.

I know this will be laughed at and thought of as funny, and he is certainly no ATG or anything, but I recently went back through this guys old fights and best wins and he was one hell of a fighter back then. I'm talking about....wait for it........Zab Judah! Of all people huh?

Seriously though, back at 140 he dominated some guys who were rarely, if ever, beaten so bad and up until Baldomir actually had a damn good career going. The Baldomir loss just made people laugh at his whole career, but until then he had done some hugely impressive stuff. Wins over Micky Ward, unbeaten Junior Witter, 22-1 Terron Millett, 38-2 (32 KO's) Jan Bergman, Reggie Green, 18-0 Allan Vester is nothing to scoff at for an up and coming champion. They were all very good fighters, either top (number one) contenders or champions.

Apart from that he also beat the very fine Spinks in his only KO loss, which is an amazing feat considering who he went on to fight afterward and who he had fought. Jaime Rangel, Cosme Rivera along with champions DeMarcus Corley and Rafael Pineda is a pretty fine thing to do for someone who is quite simply laughed out of a room now. I suppose it's because of the potential he showed during his 140 days because there was no indication of his craziness weirdness back then. He went whole fights boxing beautifully.

Anyway, while not a great pick for this thread as he never reached any truly great heights, I was just reminded how very good he was at one time, and how everyone thought he was the next P4P ATG great at one point there. His loss to Baldomir though just made him a laughing stock.

[BennyST]

I've watched the whole trilogy millions of times. When merchant asked whether it was a lucky shot or not tarver said "Hey, Knockouts happens in boxing" In another words, yeah it was lucky.

There is no such thing as luck at that level in elite sport. Tarver was in his best years, trained harder probably, had the perfect style, had good power and had probably practiced that sort of overhand left hook thing a million times. That's not luck.

Does that mean Gatti's KO of Rodriguez was luck or his KO of Ruelas? He was getting beaten up and out of absolutely nowhere....BOOM! He wins by KO with one shot. Is that luck? No. It's training.

People think of instinct as luck. The thing is, these guys at that level have trained so goddamned much that those punches that come out of nowhere are not lucky punches. They are instinctual punches based on years upon years of dedicated, daily training to the point that when a split second moment in one single fight presents itself their instinct takes over and ... BOOM... that's it. Goodnight and game over. It's training, not luck. Nothing at that level is luck.

You know that classic saying by some super high level athlete, I can't remember who, that said in response to him doing amazing stuff that people called 'luck' "It's funny, the harder I train, the luckier I get".

[BennyST]

i dont `Trash` Lewis.. i tell it how it was about Lennox Lewis, i dont get carried away with a load of mythical crap about him like so many others do on this forum, like claiming:

Wow, this is an interesting turn of events. You know how you think you 'see' Lewis for what he really is? Although you think you see him as some kind of overrated piece of garbage, this is funny because you see Pacman as the GOAT, if only he can beat Mayweather otherwise he's still a top five/ten ATG, and yet supposedly you see through the overrated hype that is Lewis because really his wins are against bums or guys who had lost recently and weren't what they used to be or were just overrated in the first place......


Oh man, I love this place. So funny. Everyone is so wacky, weird and hypocritical....apart from the normal people here of course.

"Lewis doesn't even deserve to be rated in the top hundred heavies of all time! Pacquiao is the GOAT and is a better heavy than Lewis. I know, I tell it how it is. I see what others don't see and am not a biased freak that has no perspective at all. I don't get carried away with hype or BS like everyone else" says Sonny.


Heeeeeeheheehhee ahhhhhh great stuff.

[General Zod]

Then explain, why did tarver threw the punch with his eyes closed?

Im sure a lot of fighters throw punches with their eyes closed or not looking exactly at their opponent, Pac-Hatton springs to mind. If you watch Jones- Harding and Jones-Tarver I you will see that both Southpaws have a lot of success landing their left hooks between Roy's guard.

[General Zod]

I've watched the whole trilogy millions of times. When merchant asked whether it was a lucky shot or not tarver said "Hey, Knockouts happens in boxing" In another words, yeah it was lucky.

Not really. Maybe he just didnt expect to beat Jones that way, but he had obviously been training to counter Jones's left hooks with a counter overhand left thats for sure.

[General Zod]

There is no such thing as luck at that level in elite sport. Tarver was in his best years, trained harder probably, had the perfect style, had good power and had probably practiced that sort of overhand left hook thing a million times. That's not luck.
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Good post, green k sent