Roberto Duran>>>>>>Benny Leonard, Willie Pep, Ray Leonard? Do You Agree?

[JAB5239]

What do you think if the SRL-Hagler fight was 15 rounds my friend?

You can't seriously sit there with a straight face and talk about the 3rd SRL-Duran fight? Duran was so far past his prime he could not see it in his rearview mirror.

They split 2 fights when Duran was still in his prime.AND Duran was the one who went up in weight my friend.Can you imagine if Middleweight was Duran's actuall fighting weight in his prime,and SRL had to go up a weight to fight him? Duran would have smoked him!

It seems like you're trying to justify your position with what if's, and not with what actually happened.

[boxingbuff]

It seems like you're trying to justify your position with what if's, and not with what actually happened.

You would rather "win a debate" than search for then truth.

What acually happened is Duran went up 12 lbs,and beat SRL's azz for 15 rounds.SRL won the rematch.They split while both in there prime.BUT Duran is the one who went up 12 lbs!

SRL would not agree to fight Hagler 15 rounds,and for good reason.Duran was ahead in the scoring after 12 rounds against Hagler.These are the facts,and what actually happened my friend.

SRL didn't have to go up 12 lbs and fight Duran.This is a fact!

Keep trying to "spin" things and win a debate my friend,Lol

[JAB5239]

You would rather "win a debate" than search for then truth.

What acually happened is Duran went up 12 lbs,and beat SRL's azz for 15 rounds.SRL won the rematch.They split while both in there prime.BUT Duran is the one who went up 12 lbs!

SRL would not agree to fight Hagler 15 rounds,and for good reason.Duran was ahead in the scoring after 12 rounds against Hagler.These are the facts,and what actually happened my friend.

SRL didn't have to go up 12 lbs and fight Duran.This is a fact!

Keep trying to "spin" things and win a debate my friend,Lol

The truth is you're talking about what ifs and not what happened. Stick with the facts and put the assumptions away.

I gotta go for a run. When I get back I'll tear your arguments down at the risk of being called a hater.

And by the way, debates are won by arguing the truth.

[boxingbuff]

The truth is you're talking about what ifs and not what happened. Stick with the facts and put the assumptions away.

I gotta go for a run. When I get back I'll tear your arguments down at the risk of being called a hater.

And by the way, debates are won by arguing the truth.

Debates are not won by arguing the truth.Your like a defense attorney arguing for someone who is guilty.Your like the college debate team arguing to "win a debate" not search for the truth.

I gave you plenty of FACTS,and what actually happened.You chose to ignore the facts and put a "spin" on the facts.Your good for nothing but games.

IMO Joe Louis gets KO'd early by both Foreman and Liston.Worse then Schmeling.Muhammad Ali easily wins a 15 round UD.

Louis never fought top grade A fighters like these three.It would be a step up in class for Joe.

[JAB5239]

Debates are not won by arguing the truth.Your like a defense attorney arguing for someone who is guilty.Your like the college debate team arguing to "win a debate" not search for the truth.

I gave you plenty of FACTS,and what actually happened.You chose to ignore the facts and put a "spin" on the facts.Your good for nothing but games.

IMO Joe Louis gets KO'd early by both Foreman and Liston.Worse then Schmeling.Muhammad Ali easily wins a 15 round UD.

Louis never fought top grade A fighters like these three.It would be a step up in class for Joe.

You're basing you argument on "what if Leonard had moved up?" or "What if Leonard-Hagler was 15 rounds?", In other words you're basing your argument on something imaginary. Your opinions don't hold water because they're not backed by facts.

As far as your Louis opinion, save it for the other thread. You can't handle this argument let alone two at once.

[DeepSleep]

Well, I can see that. But it really doesn't come into effect because Duran beat him the first fight. Duran beat Leonard, it's a great victory. Then when he loses to Leonard 2x, making him quit the first rematch. Then size comes into play? Nah, my man.

Leonard > Duran.... unarguable when the guy lost to him twice.

Size was always at play, the fact that Duran a LW was so good that he could beat a ATG WW at his own weight is what makes him such a legend.

Roy Jones Jr. lost twice to Antonio Tarver at LHW, yet no one in their right mind would rank Tarver over Roy Jones Jr.. A ATG lightweight is supposed to lose to an ATG welterweight, the fact that he managed to beat him is enough reason to say he is a better fighter. Or Sam Langford who had a losing record against Harry Willis, yet no one would rate Willis as the better fighter of the two.

Duran was a ATG LW who was supposed to lose to the ATG SRL, the fact that his skills advantage allowed him to make up for his size disadvantage is why people rate him higher than SRL.

[Rolling Stone]

Willie Pep > SRL > Duran > Leonard

[F l i c k e r]

Size was always at play, the fact that Duran a LW was so good that he could beat a ATG WW at his own weight is what makes him such a legend.

Roy Jones Jr. lost twice to Antonio Tarver at LHW, yet no one in their right mind would rank Tarver over Roy Jones Jr.. A ATG lightweight is supposed to lose to an ATG welterweight, the fact that he managed to beat him is enough reason to say he is a better fighter. Or Sam Langford who had a losing record against Harry Willis, yet no one would rate Willis as the better fighter of the two.

Duran was a ATG LW who was supposed to lose to the ATG SRL, the fact that his skills advantage allowed him to make up for his size disadvantage is why people rate him higher than SRL.

I see what you mean but to my understanding the TS wasn't talking about who should be ranked higher.

He is saying who was the better fighter and I don't see who he could be the better between the two when SRL won 2x. Winning the first rematch 2-3 months after he loss to Duran, by making Duran say no more.

[BennyST]

Exactly what I am saying.

TS never said anything about lightweight. He basically said in general, Duran is better than these guys. Which I find odd because Leonard beat the dude 2x.

'In general' includes his lightweight title reign, his pre-lightweight days from 118 up to 135 beating great champions like Ernesto Marcel, as well as moving up to 147 to beat two HOF WW's and one of the greatest ever fighters in Leonard (who had a monstrous size advantage) as well as moving up to win the 154, 160 titles, along with still beating future great champions like Jorge Castro when he was as old as Hopkins is now!

Hopkins is praised mightily for beating Pavlik, when Pavlik moved up to Hop's weight. Duran moved up from 118 to do the same thing as Hopkins at the same age (even older maybe, can't really remember) yet was half his size.

That is what is meant by 'in general'. Everything in his career, not two fights which he split with a much bigger ATG who was younger, at his best weight and in his best years.

'In general' means taking into consideration that he was able to beat great champions such as Marcel in the late 60's to Castro in the late 90's along with everything in between.

Anyway, I don't know if I'd agree. You could argue this type of stuff all day, every day. Maybe......probably not. Like Jab, I'd put him somewhere in the latter half of the top ten. I can't be bothered thinking about it right now though.

[Jim Jeffries]

Willie Pep > SRL > Duran > Leonard

Why am I not surprised that you would have Benny Leonard dead last?