1970/1971 Joe Frazier vs 1959/1960 Sonny Liston

[them_apples]

This is the 70/71 Frazier not the 73 version who was overweight with an ass like a horse on him, yet dont forget than even in that overweight condition Foreman could not knock him out, he put him down 6 times yet Frazier got to his feet each time by the count of 4 and was stopped on his feet, Foreman used illegal tactics of pushing Frazier off balance then punching with both hands which Liston would not get away with because Foreman knew he would never get away with it again., Foreman also hit Joe the back of the head

Foreman was also considerably bigger than Liston and had that height advantage.

I find this a hard fight to pick, but in my books Frazier is better than Liston so I'd have to go with him. Frazier had about 20 lbs naturally on Patterson, so i'm not going to go by that fight as a gauge to who should win.

[CarlosG815]

I can't get the image of Foreman's destruction of Frazier out of my mind, and Liston was similar to Big George. I think this is a bad fight for Joe. Joe would try to walk through fighters by trading with them, and it would have played right into the teeth of Liston's power. It would have been an epic slug fest for the short time it lasted, but I don't see Frazier doing well in this one.

Liston by KO over Frazier.

IMO, a prime Frazier would beat George. Joe Frazier had no business in the ring with George in his condition.

[EzzardFan]

I think Liston faced a better version of Ali than Frazier ever did. I do not believe that Frazier could have taken a mid-60s Ali. And a 1959/1960 version of Liston is much better than the 1964 version.

Having said that I agree that the 1971 version of Frazier was much better than the version that faced Foreman and would have quitted itself better against Foreman.

It should also be taken into account that Liston beat Zroa Folley, Eddie Machen, and Cleveland Williams when those guys were at their peak, and they were seriously good fighters equal to anyone on Fraziers resume.

Liston was very strong, had an enormous reach, knockout power in both hands, and unlike Foreman he could really box. He went the distance against Machen and won, proof that he was capable of lasting 12 rounds at his peak, which was probably around 1959-1960.

This is an interesting fight. It's essentially a rerun of both Liston-Patterson I&II, and Foreman-Frazier I&II. Liston wasn't as strong as Foreman but he was a better boxer. Frazier was much tougher than Patterson and had incredible stamina.

The key point would probably occur in round 8. If Liston hadn't demolished Frazier by the 8th round then Frazier would certainly survive the distance. But would Liston? I think that Liston would tire much more than Ali did over the course of a long fight, and that Frazier would start to reach him with that big left hook resulting in a Frazier KO in the late rounds.

Frazier would give Liston a much tougher workout than Machen did. But Liston's punches would be much harder on Frazier than Ali's were. I really think that A) this would be a great fight, and B) that it would be much too close to predict the outcome.

If it ended by round 8 then Liston would have KO'd Frazier (and there's a real danger of that happening). If it ended after round 8 then Frazier would almost certainly have KO'd Liston. I don't think there's much chance of a decision, but if there was then Frazier would probably take in due to sheer volume of punches.

This would have been one of the most exciting fights ever.

[whatwasit]

Liston would've knocked Frazier out.

[StarshipTrooper]

You could have put the Frazier of the 1st Ali in with the Foreman of the Jimmy Young fight and the result would have been the same: This is one of the very few cases where the stylistic matchup is determinate. It's a VERY bad style matchup for Frazier and the same problem faces him against a prime Liston. Also, I think there's some serious underrating of Liston going on in this thread.

Poet

[fight_professor]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlosG815

Well I'm not convinced that he could take Joe out.

Looking at Sonny's resume I'm not seeing anybody on there that's on Joe's level of skill, stamina, speed and heart. People were afraid to pressure Liston because of his crazy reach and crisp jab.

He made Patterson look like a ***** but Patterson is nothing like Joe Frazier and wasn't a solid 200+lb fighter.

I don't know what happened in the bouts with Muhammad Ali but that isn't a guy I'd ever pick to beat the Great Joe Frazier.

My money is on Joe to bob and weave through Sonny's jab, pressure the hell out of him, take his shots, and eventually land a night ending left hook to Sonny's jaw.

Quote Sonnyboyx2
you could be correct here...its a tough fight to call between two great pressure fighters, i think the heart & stamina lies with Joe Frazier

Co-signed

I add my signiture to that analysis too. Joe was too willing, and he'd slip the jab. He slipped Ali's jab enough times. Joe by decision.

[CarlosG815]

It's a VERY bad style matchup for Frazier and the same problem faces him against a prime Liston. Also, I think there's some serious underrating of Liston going on in this thread.

Poet

How do you see the fight playing out?

[StarshipTrooper]

How do you see the fight playing out?

Liston issues a bad beating and stops him inside of 5. Short-armed pressure fighters, no matter how great over-all they are, have no business being in the ring against Liston and Foreman.

Poet

[Ascended]

voting for a slow easy to read son is crazy he loses