If Frazier won Manila, or Norton won the 3rd fight, would be judge Ali differently?

**bojangles1987** · 04-05-2010, 08:44 PM

I don't think it would change too much. Those two were just awful match ups for Ali, and both of those fights in particular were Ali when he was pretty far past it.

**JAB5239** · 04-05-2010, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by capt_sam

In essence, if either of these 2 had won their respective third bouts against Ali, and thus led the greatest 2-1, would we be forced to reevaluate Ali and reconsider his standing as the #1 HW of alltime?

Or would his sheer skill, style and list of victories [most impressive resume at HW ever] still keep him at #1?

If Frazier had won in Manila he might be looked at differently. But after the punishment he took in that fight, if he lost to Norton It could still be chalked up to the wear and tear, and being past his best. Jmo.

**fight_professor** · 04-05-2010, 08:58 PM

Manila is too brutal to watch at times. Its painful to see Ali collapse at the end, that should have been it for Ali and Joe. But had Joe won, his stock would have soared. He'd have been 2-1 v Ali and I think history would judge him differently.

**JAB5239** · 04-05-2010, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by capt_sam

Manila is too brutal to watch at times. Its painful to see Ali collapse at the end, that should have been it for Ali and Joe. But had Joe won, his stock would have soared. He'd have been 2-1 v Ali and I think history would judge him differently.

I think I have him ranked 11th or 12th all time. A second win over Ali would have pushed him into the top 6 or 7 and I think Louis would be thought of as number one by the majority. I like these "what if" scenarios...good thread.

**mickey malone** · 04-05-2010, 09:05 PM

No I don't think so.. He'd still have a victory over both of them..
I'd say most people think Ali was lucky to get the DC in the 3rd Norton fight anyway..

**fight_professor** · 04-05-2010, 09:06 PM

Yeah a 2nd win would push Joe towards the top 5. I have him inside the top 10 on achievements [just] and 7ish on who beats who lists.

I am a big Smoke fan. The manliness of his game. A warrior.

**fight_professor** · 04-05-2010, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by mickey malone

No I don't think so.. He'd still have a victory over both of them..
I'd say most people think Ali was lucky to get the DC in the 3rd Norton fight anyway..

That is the only time in his career I think Ali may have got an establishment decision. It was close mind you.

If Frazier won Manila, or Norton won the 3rd fight, would be judge Ali differently?