Marciano is overrated - agree or disagree

[hhascup]

Good stuff!... I'd say the only thing you've left out was his ability to take punishment.. He was a freak of nature in that department..

When you say that, who in your opinion was the hardest hitting boxer Rocky ever faced. Louis only had 3 KO's in his last 9 bouts before he fought Rocky. Walcott had 32 career KO's in his 71 bouts, and was 10-7 with 5 KO's in his last 17 bouts before he fought Rocky.

Charles had 52 KO's in his 119 pro bouts, and 9 in his last 19 bouts before he fought Rocky. Moore had a record 131 KO's in his 220 bouts, and 12 KO's in his last 21 bouts before he fought Rocky.

Also, about inside fighting, yes Rocky had to get close to land his haymakers but not that close. He stated that he needed just enough room to land from the outside.

[mickey malone]

When you say that, who in your opinion was the hardest hitting boxer Rocky ever faced. Louis only had 3 KO's in his last 9 bouts before he fought Rocky. Walcott had 32 career KO's in his 71 bouts, and was 10-7 with 5 KO's in his last 17 bouts before he fought Rocky.

Charles had 52 KO's in his 119 pro bouts, and 9 in his last 19 bouts before he fought Rocky. Moore had a record 131 KO's in his 220 bouts, and 12 KO's in his last 21 bouts before he fought Rocky.

Also, about inside fighting, yes Rocky had to get close to land his haymakers but not that close. He stated that he needed just enough room to land from the outside.

As you know Louis and Moore were both murderous punchers who although past their prime were still able to land more freely on Marciano than most of their other opponents.. Other than that, there are no huge punchers on his record, but because of the way he fought, he was always in range and took a large accumulation of shots as he came forward.. LeStarza and ****ell were also hard fights, in which Marciano shipped a fair bit of punishment..

[hhascup]

As you know Louis and Moore were both murderous punchers who although past their prime were still able to land more freely on Marciano than most of their other opponents.. Other than that, there are no huge punchers on his record, but because of the way he fought, he was always in range and took a large accumulation of shots as he came forward.. LeStarza and ****ell were also hard fights, in which Marciano shipped a fair bit of punishment..

Fair enough BUT knockouts usually come from good timing of the punches, and at the time Rocky fought Louis, Louis didn't have that kind of timing anymore.

LaStarza had 27 KO's in his 66 bouts and ****ell showed a lot of heart in his match with Rocky, but he wasn't in Rocky's class. He was KO'ed 9 times in his career.

My question is, if Rocky was around when Ali fought, could he have stood up to the big punchers like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Mac Foster, Lyle, Shavers, etc. It's one thing being hit by guys like ****ell and LaStarza and another thing getting hit by some of those guys I listed on Ali's resume.

I am not saying that Rocky wouldn't have beaten these guys BUT when you keep fighting guys like this, something got to give.

[mickey malone]

Fair enough BUT knockouts usually come from good timing of the punches, and at the time Rocky fought Louis, Louis didn't have that kind of timing anymore.

LaStarza had 27 KO's in his 66 bouts and ****ell showed a lot of heart in his match with Rocky, but he wasn't in Rocky's class. He was KO'ed 9 times in his career.

My question is, if Rocky was around when Ali fought, could he have stood up to the big punchers like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Mac Foster, Lyle, Shavers, etc. It's one thing being hit by guys like ****ell and LaStarza and another thing getting hit by some of those guys I listed on Ali's resume.

I am not saying that Rocky wouldn't have beaten these guys BUT when you keep fighting guys like this, something got to give.

Harry Mathews was considered a fairly big puncher too, but i believe he may have been beaten by ****ell.. And for the record, as good as i think Rocky was, i doubt he'd have beaten Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Holmes or a prime Louis..

[hhascup]

Harry Mathews was considered a fairly big puncher too, but i believe he may have been beaten by ****ell.. And for the record, as good as i think Rocky was, i doubt he'd have beaten Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Holmes or a prime Louis..

I agree and yes Mathews was a pretty good puncher as a Light Heavyweight. He did have a Great unbeaten streak (51-0-1 with 37 KO's) going before he fought Rocky. He lost 3 times to ****ell.

[EzzardFan]

When you say that, who in your opinion was the hardest hitting boxer Rocky ever faced. Louis only had 3 KO's in his last 9 bouts before he fought Rocky. Walcott had 32 career KO's in his 71 bouts, and was 10-7 with 5 KO's in his last 17 bouts before he fought Rocky.

Charles had 52 KO's in his 119 pro bouts, and 9 in his last 19 bouts before he fought Rocky. Moore had a record 131 KO's in his 220 bouts, and 12 KO's in his last 21 bouts before he fought Rocky.

KO's were less common in fights between top fighters back then than they are today when many top fighters have inflated KO records due to the poor defensive skills exhibited by the tomato cans with manufactured records that they get fed.

Anyhow... rant over. Take it you mean relative to when Marciano faced them? I reckon Moore with Charles a close second. Moore had plenty of KO's left in him at the time of their fight. He was a great KO artist with impeccable timing who knew how to get in there and pick his spot. He knocked Rocky down early in the fight. Remember that Moore still holds the all time KO record for any fighter. That's hard to argue against.

Charles also scored a large number of KO's in his career. The percentage would doubtless have been bigger if A) he'd remained in the LHW division, and B) he hadn't accidentally killed a man. But again the man had impeccable timing.

Both Moore and Charles were also much the same size as Rocky.

[hhascup]

KO's were less common in fights between top fighters back then than they are today when many top fighters have inflated KO records due to the poor defensive skills exhibited by the tomato cans with manufactured records that they get fed.

Anyhow... rant over. Take it you mean relative to when Marciano faced them? I reckon Moore with Charles a close second. Moore had plenty of KO's left in him at the time of their fight. He was a great KO artist with impeccable timing who knew how to get in there and pick his spot. He knocked Rocky down early in the fight. Remember that Moore still holds the all time KO record for any fighter. That's hard to argue against.

Charles also scored a large number of KO's in his career. The percentage would doubtless have been bigger if A) he'd remained in the LHW division, and B) he hadn't accidentally killed a man. But again the man had impeccable timing.

Both Moore and Charles were also much the same size as Rocky.

I agree, Moore was a KO puncher, as he still holds the all-time record BUT he didn't have the same punch as Louis, Dempsey, Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Lyle, Frazier and others. Moore was a light Heavyweight, these guys were heavyweights.

As far as KO's go, Louis had a pretty good percentage, as did many others, before Rocky and after him.

Just a side note, last night I went to a boxing affair in Newark New Jersey and Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, Buster Douglas and Michael Spinks all came. Referee Eddie Cotton drove me their. Frazier didn't look good at all.

[EzzardFan]

Rocky stated many times that he needed room for his power punches. He also said that he didn't like boxing on the inside because of this. This is Rocky saying this, not me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVNXhP0pU50&feature=player_embedded

Taken from this thread:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374585

(credit to The Beatles for posting this BTW)

Think that this interview with Marciano clears things up. Rocky clearly states that his style was:

Using his height and weight (meaning lack thereof) to his advantage
Getting low making himself a harder target
Bobbing and weaving
Getting in close to an opponent
Punching inside and short as this gave him an advantage
Not staying long range
Keep away from the ring centre
Getting his opponent up against the ropes and keeping him there

Reckon I gotcha there... which is a relief because I was starting to doubt my sanity LOL.