More Accomplished HW Lennox Lewis Or Joe Frazier?

[Snopkins]

Joe beat Ali. He was damaged goods when he lost to George. Frazier was in the toughest era of HW boxing and he beat everybody, including the best (of all time maybe?).

Lennox Lewis fought in the worst era, and lost to bums like Hasim Rahman.

Joe Frazier without question.

Yes,ole Joe was damaged goods at age 29.Quite ironic that frazier fans would make such a claim and then give him so much credit for beating a 29 year old who relied entirely on his reflexes,who had just eighteen rounds under his belt and yet dismiss how easily frazier was rolled over by foreman.


frazier most certainly didn't beat everybody.Joe frazier left that work to the likes of much greater fighters like Ali and the slightly less talented,but much braver Jerry Quarry.These two mens were doing the work that frazier was supposed to be doing.

[sonnyboyx2]

Ruddock went 19 rounds against Tyson and was the favourite to beat Lewis with all the bookmakers (who, let's be fair, know a **** load more about sport than you do, because their livelihoods depend on it).

and Lewis spectacularly knocked Ruddock out in two rounds.

Nice try though ;-)

you are wrong..the odds for Lewis 10/11 Ruddock 11/10

Ruddock was Damaged Goods and Lewis knew it... i was at the fight in Earls Court, Ruddock had a huge Campervan parked outside on the carpark of Earls Court infront of the billboard which was advertising Genesis who was playing their the following week.... Ruddock never landed a punch and in his interview at ringside with Larry Merchant he said he had not acclimatised to the cold British weather, he also had his jaw & cheekbone smashed by Mike Tyson and was never the same fighter again

[StarshipTrooper]

You've got a lot of patience man. Unfortunately all the facts and logic in the world are not enough if people don't wanna hear it.

No, you can't really talk reason with someone's hard-core fans (aka nuthuggers) or someone's hard-core detractors. They're all more interested in dispensing propaganda than actually having a reasoned dicussion.

Poet

[Toney616]

Yes,ole Joe was damaged goods at age 29.Quite ironic that frazier fans would make such a claim and then give him so much credit for beating a 29 year old who relied entirely on his reflexes,who had just eighteen rounds under his belt and yet dismiss how easily frazier was rolled over by foreman.

Frazier was on the slide after the first Ali fight, he was in the hospital for 6 weeks after the Ali fight. Style wise Foreman is a bad match up for Joe, which is why Durham and Futch were so against it.

frazier most certainly didn't beat everybody.Joe frazier left that work to the likes of much greater fighters like Ali and the slightly less talented,but much braver Jerry Quarry.These two mens were doing the work that frazier was supposed to be doing.

His a ATG so he must of been doing something right.

[Shazam!]

Yes,ole Joe was damaged goods at age 29.Quite ironic that frazier fans would make such a claim and then give him so much credit for beating a 29 year old who relied entirely on his reflexes,who had just eighteen rounds under his belt and yet dismiss how easily frazier was rolled over by foreman.


frazier most certainly didn't beat everybody.Joe frazier left that work to the likes of much greater fighters like Ali and the slightly less talented,but much braver Jerry Quarry.These two mens were doing the work that frazier was supposed to be doing.

Well Frazier did beat Quarry twice, didn't he? But yeah, I see what you're saying. There are a lot of great fighters of that era that Frazier never fought. His style obviously gave Ali problems but he was totally dominated by Foreman. So much so that you have to believe Frazier could have fought Foreman 15-20 more times and would never have won. I believe the truly, truly great could find a way to at least be competitive with anyone. That is my reasoning. That they could rise to meet any new challenge because they were a master of the sport. That is why I rate Lennox Lewis so highly, up there near (but not equal to) Muhammad Ali. Because he found a way to beat everyone he faced, through the amateurs, through the Olympics and all throughout his professional career.

There's a great story about Lewis and Tyson sparring in about 83 when they were both teenagers and Tyson coming out like an animal, shocking and grazing Lewis. Then they came back the next day and Lewis apparently schooled Tyson because he'd figured him out. This, to me, typifies a great.

Going back to Joe Frazier, I would have loved to have seen him tested against a wider variety of opponents. Jimmy Young, Ken Norton etc.

[Schmerzen]

Yes,ole Joe was damaged goods at age 29.Quite ironic that frazier fans would make such a claim and then give him so much credit for beating a 29 year old who relied entirely on his reflexes,who had just eighteen rounds under his belt and yet dismiss how easily frazier was rolled over by foreman.

a fight with ali is no walk in the park, he definitive slowed down after the first ali fight.
but i agree, even the best frazier would have lost to foreman, fraziers strategy take 2 punches to land 1 didnt work against the hardest puncher of all time and it never would.

[Snopkins]

Frazier was on the slide after the first Ali fight, he was in the hospital for 6 weeks after the Ali fight. Style wise Foreman is a bad match up for Joe, which is why Durham and Futch were so against it.

There was no style other than Foreman was a puncher.Durham carefully guided frazier's career so that he avoid every ranked contender who could punch.

His a ATG so he must of been doing something right.

Certainly questionable whether frazier is a true ATG.

Well Frazier did beat Quarry twice, didn't he?

I didn't say Quarry was a better fighter than frazier,just alot braver.Quarry was a very popular figure during his years as a fighter.He could have picked and chose who he would fight just like frazier did,but he didn't.Other than Ali,I don't think any top heavyweight of that era fought at many contenders as Quarry did.

[Shazam!]

you are wrong..the odds for Lewis 10/11 Ruddock 11/10

Ruddock was Damaged Goods and Lewis knew it... i was at the fight in Earls Court, Ruddock had a huge Campervan parked outside on the carpark of Earls Court infront of the billboard which was advertising Genesis who was playing their the following week.... Ruddock never landed a punch and in his interview at ringside with Larry Merchant he said he had not acclimatised to the cold British weather, he also had his jaw & cheekbone smashed by Mike Tyson and was never the same fighter again

Ruddock was the favourite to beat Lewis with most of the bookmakers. I don't know where you got those odds from but judging by the way you distort facts and carefully select information, I'm not surprised that you can find something. Watching the fight again, the commentators scream 'no one expected this'.

You say Ruddock hadn't acclimitised to the cold, British weather. What kind of an excuse is that? How about the hot weather in South Africa for Lewis's loss to Rahman?

Lewis KTFO'd Ruddock in 2 rounds. What kind of an excuse is 'Tyson broke his jaw' when they fought? Don't you think a fighter would wait until his jaw healed before entering a fight of this calibre? We're talking, what, a year later here?

But then again, I have never seen you acknowledge one positive thing relating to Lewis, so I don't expect you to start now. Keep hating ;-)

[sonnyboyx2]

Ruddock was the favourite to beat Lewis with most of the bookmakers. I don't know where you got those odds from but judging by the way you distort facts and carefully select information, I'm not surprised that you can find something. Watching the fight again, the commentators scream 'no one expected this'.

You say Ruddock hadn't acclimitised to the cold, British weather. What kind of an excuse is that? How about the hot weather in South Africa for Lewis's loss to Rahman?

Lewis KTFO'd Ruddock in 2 rounds. What kind of an excuse is 'Tyson broke his jaw' when they fought? Don't you think a fighter would wait until his jaw healed before entering a fight of this calibre? We're talking, what, a year later here?

But then again, I have never seen you acknowledge one positive thing relating to Lewis, so I don't expect you to start now. Keep hating ;-)

Every british bookmaker had Lewis odds-on to win.. i bet Lewis to win...Ruddocks excuse is lame and i dont accept just like you dont accept it so why should i accept Lewis excuse of `not being motivate, Lucky punch, ocean`s 11 etc etc etc when he got levelled by Rahman the journeyman... you claim Lewis beat everyman he got in the ring with when he ajusted himself.. "What garbage" Lewis fought no-one, he avoided all the top fighters of the 1990s... Foreman, Holmes, Whitherspoon, Sanders, Tyson, Roy Jones, Ruiz, Byrd,Wlad, Bowe, Moorer, Hide all held titles during 1992 - 2000 and Lewis avoided every single one of them because they was at the top of their game, Lewis held a version of the title back in 92 but wanted nothing to do with any of those fighters, he instead fought, Jackson, Tucker, Butler, Fortune, Mavrovic, Akinwande, Bruno, Grant, Tua, Briggs, Botha a real ****in who`s who of Legendary fighters... Lewis had a chance to fight Tyson in 96 but baulked out of it accepting step-a-side money instead of a guaranteed title fight and career highest purse... he could have easily said NO and went ahead with the fight but he knew he stood no chance against that version of Tyson...

Your claim of Tyson & Lewis fighting when only 16yrs old is far from what Jack Newfield tells in his book, he says Tyson destroyed Lewis in two sparring sessions that lasted 1 round each and that Lewis went back to Canada with his tail between his legs

Your good at listening to Lewis tell his nursey rhymes, yet you dismiss Rid**** Bowe telling it how it really was about him & Lewis as rubbish.

you claim Lewis knocked **** out of Ruddock in 2rds yet went the distance with Tyson... so what!
Holyfield went 24rds with Lewis yet was floored by John Ruiz & KOd by James Toney.. Levi Billups went 10rds with Lewis but was KOd by every other opponent he fought.. David Tua went 12rds with Lewis but was schooled by Chris Byrd..

[CarlosG815]

Ruddock went 19 rounds against Tyson and was the favourite to beat Lewis with all the bookmakers (who, let's be fair, know a **** load more about sport than you do, because their livelihoods depend on it).

and Lewis spectacularly knocked Ruddock out in two rounds.

Nice try though ;-)

You're seriously comparing the Ruddock that fought Tyson to the Ruddock that fought Lewis? Get the **** OUTTA HERE. Smoke another one.

Ruddock got DESTROYED and didn't go down. That's not taking anything away from Tyson, but it just shows how TOUGH Ruddock was. Then Lewis pitter patters him to a knockout in 2 rounds, and you think that Ruddock is on the same level as the younger, stronger, never had his jaw shattered Ruddock?

Nice try, man, but you're not going to have any success with that argument.