More Accomplished HW Lennox Lewis Or Joe Frazier?

[sonnyboyx2]

3 fight.

2nd fight Ali won handsomely.

2nd fight was very close call

[sonnyboyx2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_B...il#cite_note-3


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...l-going-strong


http://www.nytimes.com/1992/10/28/sp...l?pagewanted=1
Bowe was having second thoughts about fighting the winner of Lewis Bowe, before he even fought Holufiled, lol

Holyfield was undisputed champion, he had every right to defend against the WBA No1 contender... his court case was to stop the WBC from stripping him of their belt and fragmenting the undisputed title... Holyfield would have had to wait 6 months before he could have defended against Ruddock as Ruddock had signed to fight Lewis in London.. the fight with Lewis was changed to a "Final Eliminator" only days before the fight... after Bowe beat Holyfield and Lewis priced himself out of meeting Bowe because he knew that Bowe would be stripped of the WBC belt so Bowe said to the WBC & Lewis "Up You Two" and dumped the belt... Lewis picked the belt out of the trash can and masqueraded as a champion for 18 months unto McCall Poleaxed him.. The Bowe camp then offered Lewis a career highest purse of $10 million which Lewis turned down.... There was only one guy who was ducking here!

[Emon723]

More accomplished, I'd go with Frazier, Lewis has a missing piece when he never get a chance to beat Rid**** Bowe, and Frazier gave Ali his toughest fights in their trilogies, Also Smokin Joe being knockout by George Foreman twice (KO by 2 and 5) has by far faced a bigger puncher then Lewis being stopped by McCall and Rahman (KO2 and KO5)

[General Zod]

Roy Jones - Lewis turned down the largest purse in pro sports history a staggering $35 million + PPV saying he had nothing to prove by fighting an ex middleweight which is a clear Duck.

Murad Muhammad, Jones's promoter:

"We shocked the boxing world when we took on and defeated John Ruiz. We shocked them again when we announced that we wanted the three musketeers. Mike Tyson was first, but he was not ready. It's not that he does not want to fight him, he's just not ready yet. We then tried to get Evander Holyfield, 'The Real Deal' but he would not make a deal, and he decided to fight James Toney in a fight that he's finished if he loses. And if he wins, then he's a possibility for next year. Then came Lennox Lewis, we offered him $25,000,000 to fight us, and when he realized it was real, he wanted to get rid of his mandatory (Klitschko) to fight Roy Jones Jr,, but after he put on that poor performance. he doesn't know if he should retire or fight Klitschko again, so Roy was left out in the cold.

Another article further down:

Still, negotiations have commenced. Lewis` camp insists the big man seeks at least one more major fight before retirement. If so, here`s a wrinkle: Jones wants the bigger purse. He`s hinted at $100 million. "These guys are different animals," said Jones, who earned more than $10 million for fighting Ruiz. "That`s why I got to be paid three times the money in order to do it. It`s ******. Why would I go in there and not make a major, major payday? One lick could be the end of me. One lick from me ain`t going to end their career."

http://www.aussiebox.com.au/jones.html

Hide - undefeated Hide repeatedly called out Lewis on British television after every defence of his WBO title, Hide vs Lewis was a huge money fight in the Uk.. Lewis wanted no part of it even when he lost his beloved WBC title.. clear case of Ducking an opponent

Herbie Hide beat Bent to get the WBO title and lost it in his next defence to Bowe. Hide was never a big name in the UK, where I also live, he also has never beat anyone worth mentioning at hw

Tyson 1996 - Lewis had no need to accept step-a-side money, he could have easily said no and forced Tyson to fight him.. Tyson`s goal was to unify the title and become undisputed so your claim that Tyson would have dropped the belt is false.

Holyfield didnt even have a belt, when Tyson agreed to fight him he was also 2-2 in his last 4 fights and considered a fighter on the slide at the time

When Holyfield and Tyson signed to fight there was no demand for the fight because Holyfield was considered finished at the time. In fact Evander had to get medical clearance from the Mayo clinic before the fight could be sanctioned by the Nevada Athletic Commission because the prevailing thought was Tyson wouldn't just beat Holyfield, but might possibly injure him

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxin...der-holyfield/
Tyson wanted nothing to do with Lewis so he could fight a shot Holyfield, who team Tyson fought was going to be easy pickings.

Moorer was often interviewed and said he wanted to fight Lewis.. Lewis wanted no part of the crafty southpaw.

Teddy Atlas in his autobiography states that he wanted Moorer to have nothing to do with Lewis because he saw him as a high risk opponent
All you have to do is look at Moorer performance in the Holyfield I fight to see that he was never going to be a good hw champion.

Ruiz - Ruiz had been hired by the Lewis team as a sparring partner in 94 when in the UK to fight Julius Francis, word is from guys who was there that Ruiz dropped Lewis the first day they sparred and that Lewis could not handle the "Grappling-Hook" style of Ruiz, the Lewis camp got rid of his services the next day

Ruiz wouldnt start hitting and holding until after he got blasted out by Tua in 20 seconds 2 years later in 96. You are also going to have to do better then: "word is from guys who were there," as well and quote a source

.... Ruiz fought his way to be the WBA No1 contender over the next 4yrs but Lewis kept him waiting 18 months as No1 contender then dumped the belt rather than face the man he knew he could not handle... Ruiz fought Holyfield for the title and put Holyfield on the canvas, something Lewis never came near to doing.... clear Duck.

Ruiz worked his way up the rankings by fighting nobodies, he also went 1-1-1 with Holyfield nothing really to brag about. And I thought Holyfield should of got the nod in their last fight as well. The fact that he put Holyfield on the floor is neither here nor there, Holyfield has been dropped by: Bowe*2, Cooper and Toney

Byrd - Byrd was No1 contender for 12 months and Lewis dumped the belt on the advice of Manny Stewart & Don King.. Byrd easily beat Holyfield for the vacant title beating him far easier than Lewis had, Byrd then beat David Tua far easier than Lewis had... clear Duck.

Why would Lewis care what King wanted he avoided having anything to do with him for most of his career.Styles make fights the fact that Byrd beat Holyfield more convincing means nothing or are you trying to use triangular theory here? Th rest of this I have already answered in another post, you should go and read the Lennox Lewis bio called Mamas boy

Bowe - Bowe offered Lewis a fight in 93 with a 75/25 split with Bowe being undisputed champ, Lewis ddeliberately "priced himself out" by demanding a 50/50 purse split and options on Bowes next 5 fights should Lewis lose

It was the other way around, how could a mandatory challenger make such demands? Also if Lewis was to blame then why didnt the WBC simply drop him from their rankings instead of stripping Bowe?

Bowe offered Lewis $10 million in 95 but Lewis turned it down saying he was concentrating on regaining the WBC title ..... clear Duck both times and a link as proof.

We should believe something, because Bowe has said it? Also do you have a sourse for any of this stuff?

Witherspoon - Tim was highly rated in 94-96 and shouting for a fight with Lewis who wanted nothing to do with `Terrible Tim` Lewis fought Butler, Fortune & Morrison instead.... clear Duck.

Link?

Sanders - Cory fought in London on the McCall vs Lewis undercard, gunning for a fight with Lewis, when Lewis lost to McCall, Sanders kept up the pressure on Lewis from 94 - 2000 running up a 13 fight win streak and being highly ranked by all governing bodies, Lewis wanted no-part of the 6ft`5in power-punching southpaw... clear Duck

Link?

Now whichever way you want to look at it, for you to claim the likes of Mavrovic, Fortune, Jackson, Grant, Akinwande, Botha, Morrison & Jackson as anything other than Class C opponents when all those Class A contenders was available for Lewis to fight.. [then you are kidding yourself.

I think you are kidding yourself with this stuff.

[General Zod]

This is all imaginary drivel you are spewing out...
Holyfield was the undisputed Heavyweight champion, Bowe was WBA No1 contender by hammering Pierre Coetzer in a final Eliminator so guaranteeing him a title fight with Holyfield... Ruddock fought Lewis in a WBC final Eliminator .... THERE WAS NO GOING TO COURT BY HOLYFIELD LIKE YOU ARE TRYING TO CLAIM

Holyfield was undisputed champion, he had every right to defend against the WBA No1 contender... his court case was to stop the WBC from stripping him of their belt and fragmenting the undisputed title..

I like how you changed your story there.

Holyfield would have had to wait 6 months before he could have defended against Ruddock as Ruddock had signed to fight Lewis in London.. the fight with Lewis was changed to a "Final Eliminator" only days before the fight... after Bowe beat Holyfield

Show me one article to back this version of events up.

and Lewis priced himself out of meeting Bowe because he knew that Bowe would be stripped of the WBC belt so Bowe said to the WBC & Lewis "Up You Two" and dumped the belt.!

That make no sense as I have pointed out before in a earlier post, tell me one high risk opponent Bowe has ever fought?

[fight_professor]

2nd fight was very close call

No, it wasnt. I've seen every second of all 3 fights and Ali beat that ass in the 2nd.

Judges scored it 8-4, 7-4-1, 6-5-1 all to Ali.

That means 2 judges saw it as a whooping.

[General Zod]

No, it wasnt. I've seen every second of all 3 fights and Ali beat that ass in the 2nd.

Judges scored it 8-4, 7-4-1, 6-5-1 all to Ali.

That means 2 judges saw it as a whooping.

Ali clinched a total of 133 times in that fight, Futch pleaded with the ref to stop the holding but Perez(ref) turned a blind eye to it.

[razzledaz 38]

frazier put his heart and soul into every fight..can,t say the same about lewis

[CarlosG815]

No, it wasnt. I've seen every second of all 3 fights and Ali beat that ass in the 2nd.

Judges scored it 8-4, 7-4-1, 6-5-1 all to Ali.

That means 2 judges saw it as a whooping.

Watch it again, Cap, could have gone either way.

[Snopkins]

Watch it again, Cap, could have gone either way.

While you encourage others to "watch it again",why don't you try actually watching it for the first time?

frazier put his heart and soul into every fight..can,t say the same about lewis

He certainly put his "heart and soul" into ducking virtually every puncher of his generation.

No, it wasnt. I've seen every second of all 3 fights and Ali beat that ass in the 2nd.

Judges scored it 8-4, 7-4-1, 6-5-1 all to Ali.

That means 2 judges saw it as a whooping.

He didn't "beat that ass" nor did he attempt to.Ali simply outboxed him in everyway.


frazier made Ali wait three years until he was sure Ali was washed up to rematch him.He did all he could to avoid Ali while his feather fisted superior was fighting on a regular basis against the top contenders frazier was avoiding.