Bert Sugar's 100 Greatest Fighters List......Give Me Your Opinion!

[Nick Name]

Well said Deanrw, and I am no troll, I respect other people's opinion altho in this case I'll stick to mine, for what it's worth.

And to give my "counterpunch", here's a much more respectable top 100 list, the one from boxrec, which is based on a system of points. That's much more useful for to state the ACTUAL value of a fighter. It's not the Gospel of course (it puts Archie Moore over Robinson, which is questionable), but it is a reasonable list, unlike Sugar's : it tells the boxer's name, points, record, years of activity and birthplace.
And not casually, Monzon is rated higher than Griffith, and Floyd Patterson is there, Nino Benvenuti is there, Duilio Loi, Lennox Lewis, Oscar De La Hoya are there.
Of course because of the points system, there are some inconsistencies, like the presence of fighters like Azumah Nelson... But overall, it is a more reliable list than Sugar's in my opinion.


1 Archie Moore 2612 185(131)-23(7)-11 1935-1963 Benoit, Mississippi, United States
2 Sugar Ray Robinson 2349 173(108)-19(1)-6 1940-1965 Harlem, New York, United States
3 Muhammad Ali 1927 56(37)-5(1)-0 1960-1981 Louisville, Kentucky, United States
4 Joe Louis 1677 66(52)-3(2)-0 1934-1951 Detroit, Michigan, United States
5 Tony Canzoneri 1670 137(44)-24(1)-10 1925-1939 New York, New York, United States
6 Carlos Ortiz 1593 61(30)-7(1)-1 1955-1972 New York, New York, United States
7 Carlos Monzon 1534 87(59)-3(0)-9 1963-1977 Santa Fe, Argentina
8 **** Tiger 1467 60(27)-19(2)-3 1952-1970 Amaigbo, Nigeria
9 Harry Greb 1464 104(48)-8(2)-3 1913-1926 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States
10 Ezzard Charles 1440 93(52)-25(7)-1 1940-1959 Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
11 Jimmy McLarnin 1410 54(21)-11(1)-3 1923-1936 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
12 Sam Langford 1382 181(127)-33(9)-38 1902-1926 Boston, Massachusetts, United States
13 Benny Leonard 1347 91(71)-5(4)-1 1911-1932 New York, New York, United States
14 Emile Griffith 1336 85(23)-24(2)-2 1958-1977 New York, New York, United States
15 Young Corbett III 1320 124(32)-12(4)-22 1919-1940 Fresno, California, United States
16 Jimmy Bivins 1316 86(31)-25(5)-1 1940-1955 Cleveland, Ohio, United States
17 Mickey Walker 1313 94(60)-19(6)-4 1919-1935 Elizabeth, New Jersey, United States
18 Jose Napoles 1304 81(55)-7(4)-0 1958-1975 Juarez, Nuevo León, Mexico
19 Jack Britton 1300 107(30)-28(1)-21 1905-1930 Clinton, New York, United States
20 Floyd Patterson 1294 55(40)-8(5)-1 1952-1972 Brooklyn, New York, United States
21 Henry Armstrong 1258 149(101)-21(2)-10 1931-1945 Los Angeles, California, United States
22 Joe Gans 1248 138(96)-10(5)-15 1893-1909 Baltimore, Maryland, United States
23 Marvin Hagler 1242 62(52)-3(0)-2 1973-1987 Brockton, Massachusetts, United States
24 Willie Pep 1234 229(65)-11(6)-1 1940-1966 Rocky Hill, Connecticut, United States
25 Harry Wills 1234 68(54)-9(5)-3 1911-1932 New Orleans, Louisiana, United States
26 Rocky Marciano 1218 49(43)-0(0)-0 1947-1955 Brockton, Massachusetts, United States
27 Roberto Duran 1199 103(70)-16(4)-0 1968-2001 Panama City, Panama
28 Bobo Olson 1169 97(47)-16(7)-2 1944-1966 Honolulu, Hawaii, United States
29 Sammy Angott 1168 94(22)-29(1)-8 1935-1950 Cleveland, Ohio, United States
30 Ike Williams 1146 126(60)-24(6)-5 1940-1955 Trenton, New Jersey, United States
31 Kid Gavilan 1140 108(28)-30(0)-5 1943-1958 Havana, Cuba
32 Tommy Loughran 1135 94(17)-24(3)-10 1919-1937 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
33 Oscar De La Hoya 1131 39(30)-6(2)-0 1992-2008 Los Angeles, California, United States
34 Gene Fullmer 1127 55(24)-6(2)-3 1951-1963 West Jordan, Utah, United States
35 Gene Tunney 1122 66(48)-1(0)-1 1915-1928 Greenwich, Connecticut, United States
36 Maxie Rosenbloom 1120 207(19)-39(2)-26 1923-1939 New York, New York, United States
37 Joey Giardello 1113 101(33)-26(4)-7 1948-1967 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
38 Bob Montgomery 1109 75(37)-19(3)-3 1938-1950 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
39 Max Schmeling 1102 56(40)-10(5)-4 1924-1948 Brandenburg, Germany
40 Larry Holmes 1097 69(44)-6(1)-0 1973-2002 Easton, Pennsylvania, United States
41 Billy Conn 1097 64(15)-12(3)-1 1934-1948 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States
42 Johnny Dundee 1096 88(22)-32(2)-20 1910-1932 New York, New York, United States
43 Jack Johnson 1092 55(36)-12(6)-7 1897-1932 Raleigh, North Carolina, United States
44 Tommy Ryan 1059 85(71)-4(1)-11 1887-1907 Van Nuys, California, United States
45 Lew Tendler 1048 60(39)-11(1)-2 1913-1928 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
46 Julio Cesar Chavez 1047 107(86)-6(4)-2 1980-2005 Culiacan, Sinaloa, Mexico
47 Carmen Basilio 1023 56(27)-16(2)-7 1948-1961 Canastota, New York, United States
48 Fred Apostoli 1011 61(31)-10(4)-1 1934-1948 San Francisco, California, United States
49 Lou Ambers 1004 91(28)-8(2)-7 1932-1941 Herkimer, New York, United States
50 Sugar Ray Leonard 1003 36(25)-3(1)-1 1977-1997 Palmer Park, Maryland, United States
51 Thomas Hearns 996 61(48)-5(4)-1 1977-2006 Michigan, United States
52 Bob Foster 992 56(46)-8(6)-1 1961-1978 New Mexico, United States
53 Lennox Lewis 992 41(32)-2(2)-1 1989-2003 United Kingdom
54 Duilio Loi 990 115(26)-3(0)-8 1948-1962 Milan, Italy
55 Harold Johnson 982 76(32)-11(5)-0 1946-1971 Pennsylvania, United States
56 Pernell Whitaker 977 40(17)-4(1)-1 1984-2001 ******ia, United States
57 Dave Shade 975 131(17)-27(2)-59 1918-1935 Massachusetts, United States
58 Joey Maxim 972 82(21)-29(1)-4 1941-1958 Ohio, United States
59 John Henry Lewis 970 97(57)-10(1)-4 1930-1939 Arizona, United States
60 Barney Ross 964 72(22)-4(0)-3 1929-1938 Illinois, United States
61 Joe Frazier 959 32(27)-4(3)-1 1965-1981 Pennsylvania, United States
62 Eder Jofre 957 72(50)-2(0)-4 1957-1976 Sao Paulo, Brazil
63 Abe Attell 950 72(39)-11(5)-18 1900-1917 San Francisco, California, United States
64 Vicente Saldivar 941 37(26)-3(2)-0 1961-1973 Distrito Federal, Mexico
65 Luis Manuel Rodriguez 928 107(49)-13(3)-0 1956-1972 Florida, United States
66 Jake LaMotta 925 83(30)-19(4)-4 1941-1954 New York, United States
67 Philadelphia Jack O'Brien 921 92(55)-7(4) 1896-1912 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
68 Azumah Nelson 911 39(28)-6(1)-2 1979-2008 Ghana
69 Sammy Mandell 908 83(31)-21(6)-9 1920-1934 Rockford, Illinois, United States
70 Jack Sharkey 896 37(13)-13(4)-3 1924-1936 Massachusetts, United States
71 Michael Spinks 896 31(21)-1(1)-0 1977-1988 Missouri, United States
72 Joe Brown 896 116(53)-47(11)-13 1941-1970 Louisiana, United States
73 Ismael Laguna 894 65(37)-9(0)-1 1960-1971 Panama
74 Panama Al Brown 893 132(62)-19(0)-12 1922-1942 , France
75 Beau Jack 886 89(44)-24(4)-5 1939-1955 Georgia, United States
76 Sonny Liston 877 50(39)-4(3)-0 1953-1970 Missouri, United States
77 Fidel LaBarba 875 67(15)-15(0)-6 1924-1933 California, United States
78 Sandy Saddler 872 144(103)-16(1)-2 1944-1956 Massachusetts, United States
79 Ted (Kid) Lewis 858 193(80)-29(5)-13 1909-1929 United Kingdom
80 Fighting Harada 854 55(22)-7(2)-0 1960-1970 Japan
81 Nino Benvenuti 852 82(35)-7(3)-1 1961-1971 Trieste, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Italy
82 Jersey Joe Walcott 849 51(32)-18(6)-2 1930-1953 New Jersey, United States
83 Jimmy Carter 847 81(32)-31(3)-9 1946-1960 Bronx, NY United States
84 Joe Jeannette 847 81(68)-10(2)-10 1904-1922 New Jersey, United States
85 Del Flanagan 845 105(38)-22(7)-2 1947-1964 Minnesota, United States
86 Johnny Kilbane 839 48(25)-5(3)-7 1907-1923 United States
87 Pete Latzo 839 62(24)-27(2)-3 1919-1934 United States
88 Marco Antonio Barrera 839 65(43)-7(1)-0 1989-2009 Mexico
89 Kid Chocolate 836 135(51)-10(2)-6 1927-1938 Cuba
90 Freddie Welsh 836 74(33)-5(1)-7 1905-1922 United States
91 Battling Levinsky 831 71(31)-19(4)-14 1910-1930 United States
92 Lou Brouillard 831 109(67)-29(1)-2 1928-1940 United States
93 Fritzie Zivic 828 157(82)-65(4)-9 1931-1949 United States
94 Holman Williams 827 146(36)-30(3)-11 1932-1948 United States
95 Alexis Arguello 824 82(65)-8(4)-0 1968-1995 Nicaragua
96 Tommy Gibbons 823 57(48)-4(1)-1 1911-1925 United States
97 Joe Walcott 814 94(59)-25(9)-25 1890-1911 United States
98 Louis Kaplan 805 109(29)-21(3)-13 1918-1933 United States
99 Kid Williams 802 107(57)-17(4)-8 1909-1929 United States
100 Marcel Thil 801 113(53)-23(4)-13 1920-1937 Cannes, Alpes-Maritimes, France

[BennyST]

if Bert was to put Lennox in he may as well put Danny Williams & Kevin McBride in because they beat Tyson when he was years past his best just like Lewis did, infact they both beat him easier than what Lewis did.. Lewis was unfortunate to only get a draw with a old Holyfield but Evander was robbed in their return fight, Lewis got KOd by a couple of journeymen fighters and beat a bunch of hand-picked Class C fighters, so Bert rightly gives Lennox zero credit for beating ATG legends Holyfield & Tyson

101010

[BennyST]

bert sugar is a known troll.i think he posts in this section

That was actually quite funny.

[BennyST]

I'm pretty sure that Futch boxed, he said he often sparred with the great Joe Louis, not sure about Glancy or Arcel. I'd be somewhat surprised if they didn't.

One can't deny Bert Sugar's contributions to the sport but I'm not so sure about how knowledgeable he truly is. Not only about boxing itself but its history. His writings and speeches are often inaccurate and he doesn't even seem to care whether he is being factual or not, considering that he keeps repeating myths that have long since been proven wrong.

He is a good writer however and tells a story better than most people could and he did do great work with the Ring Magazine.

Yeah, I think he likes to keep the mythology and storytelling part of boxing's folklore. Makes it more interesting to some.

That happens in anything though. Buddy Rich is considered the greatest drummer ever and supposedly is faster than anyone has ever been and he never practiced a day in his life.

It's sounds cool, but is complete bollocks in truth. He practiced more in one day than most do in a week and was doing so since he was three. He was also not the fastest but it's still a great story.

[Canelo Phresh]

bert flip flops to appease the masses he is not credible.

[lianpeng]

i have checked it’s really great

[Nick Name]

if Bert was to put Lennox in he may as well put Danny Williams & Kevin McBride in because they beat Tyson when he was years past his best just like Lewis did, infact they both beat him easier than what Lewis did.. Lewis was unfortunate to only get a draw with a old Holyfield but Evander was robbed in their return fight, Lewis got KOd by a couple of journeymen fighters and beat a bunch of hand-picked Class C fighters, so Bert rightly gives Lennox zero credit for beating ATG legends Holyfield & Tyson

101010

Not many people know that when they were both about 15-16 years old, Lennox did some sparring sessions with Tyson, and Lennox owned him!

[Vadrigar.]

Bert Sugar, notorious Ali downgrader exposed:



"Bert Sugar is like a politician, always flip floping"

[Bright-Eyes]

It's his opinion but I don't even have Dempsey in my ATG top ten heavyweight list.

[The Iron Man]

Not many people know that when they were both about 15-16 years old, Lennox did some sparring sessions with Tyson, and Lennox owned him!

That's just not true.

I've heard two accounts of the sparring:

1. By the first trainer of Lewis (forgot his name) Say Tyson was like and animal and all over Lewis for the first day. He asked Lewis is he wanted to just go home because he was getting hurt. Lewis apparently denied and went back to spar the next couple of days and gave as good as he took. I can quote Lewis on saying to himself after the sessions that he "hoped he didn't meet tyson again when they turned pro because he was an animal"


2. Team Tyson before their fight said Tyson knocked Lewis out the ring during sparring and beat him soundly. (This is less believable)