Overrated Defnsive Fighters?

[StarshipTrooper]

Muhammad Ali.

I think I know where you're going with this: Namely that Ali did everything techniqually "wrong" (the same with Roy Jones) and relied on his speed and reflexes. I'm very much a "bottom line" person when it comes to this subject; namely, was it effective? To my mind it doesn't matter if a fighter consistantly makes his opponents miss with technique or with reflexes: The bottom line is that he consistantly makes his opponents miss. In fact, Ali and Jones might not have been as effective as they were had they fought in a more techniqually "correct" manner instead of relying on their enormous physical talents.

Just a note about Meldrick Taylor. Given his speed he might have been able to have an effective defense ala Ali and Jones but instead allowed himself to be ****** into trench brawls in practically every fight. From what I've read Taylor did the same thing in sparring and it contributed to his rather short time as a world class fighter.

Poet

[TheGreatA]

Pernell Whitaker.Most who claim he was this great defensive fighter have only seen some silly highlights of him doing the dipsy doo da.He wasn's this consistently great defensive fighter that they say he was.


Roy Jones was a greater defensive fighter than Pernell Whitaker.Just go watch Pernell Whiaker's fights outside of the flawless clinics he put on against Ramirez,Haugen,Pineda and Chavez.

I think the same could be said for almost any fighter. In his peak performances Whitaker put on defensive boxing clinics and that's what he will be remembered for.

[Joey Giardello]

I think Benitez had a good defence but not the best like alot of people seem to think. I think Both Locce and Mayweather had better defence than benitez. Joey Giardello had under rated defence!

[wmute]

Ali got hit, plenty. That's all I meant. I think people like to talk about him "not getting hit", but to me Ali is first and foremost one of the toughest fighter to ever step in a ring, with an amazing chin, and recuperative powers to go with that.

go watch his fight with ernie terrell

Done that many times...

Before his layoff he ha physical abilities which were incredible, kind of like Roy Jones, which brings me to the next point...

I think I know where you're going with this: Namely that Ali did everything techniqually "wrong" (the same with Roy Jones) and relied on his speed and reflexes. I'm very much a "bottom line" person when it comes to this subject; namely, was it effective? To my mind it doesn't matter if a fighter consistantly makes his opponents miss with technique or with reflexes: The bottom line is that he consistantly makes his opponents miss. In fact, Ali and Jones might not have been as effective as they were had they fought in a more techniqually "correct" manner instead of relying on their enormous physical talents.

Poet

I agree with you, but by the 70s Ali differentiated himself from someone like Jones, he got hit plenty, took it, and still won most of his fights.

[StarshipTrooper]

Ali got hit, plenty. That's all I meant. I think people like to talk about him "not getting hit", but to me Ali is first and foremost one of the toughest fighter to ever step in a ring, with an amazing chin, and recuperative powers to go with that.

Done that many times...

Before his layoff he ha physical abilities which were incredible, kind of like Roy Jones, which brings me to the next point...

I agree with you, but by the 70s Ali differentiated himself from someone like Jones, he got hit plenty, took it, and still won most of his fights.

That's the big difference between Ali and Jones isn't it? When Ali came back from exhile his reflexes and speed had deteriorated and he adjusted how he fought to compensate for his diminished physical abilities which enabled him to fight at a high level for several more years. Jones never made that adjustment when hi speed and reflexes diminished and he paid the price.

Poet

[mhager91490]

Hilario Zapata and Miguel "Happy" Lora (not that either get mentioned much) are not two fighters who I would label defensive fighters per-se, they blended offense and defense together well but from what I have seen they were available to be hit from time to time and defense wasn't the big focus of their game like a Floyd Mayweather Jr. type of fighter.

[Dynamite Kid]

Donald Curry. I failed to see how a guy that hardly ever moved his head and fought with his weight on his lead foot could be defensively sound.

Curry got flattened by McCallum because he pulled out straight, he got bum rushed and hammered by Honeyghan's looping right hand. Ive also seen a lot of his earlier fights and he always took these chopping/cuffing little punches to the head because he used to lean at times.

If Curry did not get hit sometimes i because he was an exceptional counter puncher with speed, his offense was a good defense for him but just straight up defensively he was not what i would consider defensively sound.

Oh and Roberto Duran.

[BennyST]

Donald Curry. I failed to see how a guy that hardly ever moved his head and fought with his weight on his lead foot could be defensively sound.

Curry got flattened by McCallum because he pulled out straight, he got bum rushed and hammered by Honeyghan's looping right hand. Ive also seen a lot of his earlier fights and he always took these chopping/cuffing little punches to the head because he used to lean at times.

If Curry did not get hit sometimes i because he was an exceptional counter puncher with speed, his offense was a good defense for him but just straight up defensively he was not what i would consider defensively sound.

Oh and Roberto Duran.

Curry was funny like that. Sometimes he was brilliant. Would slip punches, block and parry shots as good as anyone ever has at times, but he would also get cracked flush by shots you wouldn't think he would get hit with. He was always a bit weird that way and really why he never reached the heights expected of him I guess.

Duran? Overrated? Defensively? Man, I think you got that the wrong way around. He's one of the most underrated defensive fighters, not overrated. He's rarely ever even praised for his incredible defense, lat alone even considered a defensive fighter yet, for an offense first type style, he is without doubt one of the greats of defense.

I agree with Ali wmute. One of the toughest SOBees that ever fought. His defense was in his legs and when they were not what they were, he didn't have that good a defense and relied on some minimal head movement, his hand speed and one hell of a chin.

Of the modern fighters? For some reason Migual Cotto was getting lots of props as a good defensive fighter. Man, of all people.....

Also, little Pacquiao. Many now consider him the brother of Floyd Mayweather in terms of his defensive skill.

[Dynamite Kid]

Curry was funny like that. Sometimes he was brilliant. Would slip punches, block and parry shots as good as anyone ever has at times, but he would also get cracked flush by shots you wouldn't think he would get hit with. He was always a bit weird that way and really why he never reached the heights expected of him I guess.

Duran? Overrated? Defensively? Man, I think you got that the wrong way around. He's one of the most underrated defensive fighters, not overrated. He's rarely ever even praised for his incredible defense, lat alone even considered a defensive fighter yet, for an offense first type style, he is without doubt one of the greats of defense.

I agree with Ali wmute. One of the toughest SOBees that ever fought. His defense was in his legs and when they were not what they were, he didn't have that good a defense and relied on some minimal head movement, his hand speed and one hell of a chin.

Of the modern fighters? For some reason Migual Cotto was getting lots of props as a good defensive fighter. Man, of all people.....

Also, little Pacquiao. Many now consider him the brother of Floyd Mayweather in terms of his defensive skill.

Yeah thats what i see with Curry.

I think Duran is underrated in terms of he is not considered a great defensive fighter per say, and that he can fall into the category of a defensive fighter if you want, but by the same token when people do that they seem to think he was better than he was defensively. To me Duran got nailed with a number of good left hooks and right hands throughout his career. Thats more where i was going with that one.

Agree about Ali, in a way i guess you could say Jones jr was the same, i mean if he used his legs and kept you in centre ring he would take out to school, but toward the end when his legs started to go he spent more and more time on the ropes getting ******.

[geribeetus]

Pernell Whitaker.Most who claim he was this great defensive fighter have only seen some silly highlights of him doing the dipsy doo da.He wasn's this consistently great defensive fighter that they say he was.

no offense, but i hope you're kidding. whether he was being flashy or not, sweet pea was nearly impossible to land a good punch on.

ali's was only bad in the sense that he should've mastered the basics when he was young in preparation for the inevitable decline of speed. it was extremely effective at the time, but he knew it wasn't gonna last. guys like jack johnson and archie moore whose defense was more subtle and less visually impressive required less movement and energy. their defense would stay with them for years after their speed left them.