Deflating the Ali Legend

[Schmerzen]

1) Masterful use of publicity. Outside the ring, Ali and his handlers knew how to stir up controversy and "ballyhoo" as George Foreman calls it in his autobiography. (Foreman learned how to use this to make a successful comeback at age 45). Read Foreman's autobiography - a must.

Foreman got knocked the **** out, he should be happy Ali didnt hit him with another Right Hand while he was falling.
Foreman allways makes Excuses why he lost the fight in Zaire, but Fact is he was in his Prime, and he shouldnt have got his Ass beaten to an Ali who barely beat Norton like he himself said.
He can be happy he never faced the Clay of 64 who was dancing Circles around Liston.

2) Expanding the fan base of boxing - Ali got large numbers of people who were not big boxing fans to take an interest. One reason why the average Joe who knows squat about boxing is quick to say Ali was the greatest.

U r One of them

3) Follow the money - #1 and #2 also got Ali lots of support inside the boxing world, because he brought in so many new $$$$$BUCKS$$$$. Money talks, and so did Ali. He made lots of money for himself and other people. This encouraged more athletes to enter the sport and contributed to the "golden age" in the 1970's.

U r talking about Alis Career after he beat Foreman in Zaire, he didnt get the Support he got from 75-82 in the 60s.
When he was actually an Incredible Skilled Fighter as Cassius Clay in the 60s, Ppl were calling Dempsey the greatest, not Ali.

1) Ducking the big names as a rising fighter - his managers wisely kept him away from Machen. And didn't fight Cleveland Williams or Folley until they were well past their prime.

Ali was not the one who needed 42 Fights to get a Title-Shot
Who did Foreman fight in his first 3 years as a pro?, who did Marciano fight in his whole Career?, Dempsey?
Did they had better Opponents than Ali, when they were just 18-20 years old ?
Marciano was defending his Title against 42 years old Moore, Ali made Fun of Moore, he even predicted the Round the Old Mongoose will get KOd.
He was rhyming the round he was gonna Knock Out archie on his Last Name
Thats all i can say about the Quality Opponents other Greats had to face..

2) If not for his handlers ripping his glove after getting decked by Henry cooper, Ali could well have lost by KO to a 2nd tier contender.

Ali TKO5 Cooper

3) Doug Jones decision - could have gone either way. No disgrace here, this happens all the time. By Jones too was not a top contender.

It could have gone either Way.. it didnt, Axel Schulz also beat Foreman, did u forget about that?
or Walcott > Joe Louis
La Starza > Marciano
Ted Lowry (175LBS) > Marciano
Marcer - Lennox
Ali vs Doug Jones wasnt even half as close as those Fights, but the main point is to find something to ***** about

4) Liston's self-distructed after winning the title. Not unlike Tyson, he lacked the discipline to last as a champ. By 1964 he was at his worst, just waiting to be had by the next contender. Liston fought less than one full round in almost 2 years, 1962-64.

Liston KO1 Patterson, twice - yeah, he was just waiting to get owned by the next Contender.
Funny, while Liston was waiting, there was no Joe Frazier who could take him out.
But when did Frazier ever take out a Puncher like Liston ?

Look at Liston go down, he spreads his arms out to catch himself. Someone who is really KO'd cannot do that

I knew something was wrong with you, to make a Comment like that, u need a very good Experience in getting KTFO

[GJC]

I still think Tyson beats Ali.

It's all opinion.

Its all about opinion and you are very entitled to yours.
Tyson was a very good fighter but I think Ali is a very bad match up for him.
Foreman is a terrible style match up for Tyson but i'd give him more chance there than against Ali.
I think that many think that Tyson has a good chance because Ali struggled with Frazier but Tyson and Frazier are very different styles. Tyson doesn't have Frazier's inside ability or Frazier's mental toughness.

[GJC]

You took the words out of my mouth. As always, GJC, you are a hell of a poster!!!!!!!!!

Bless you for that Silva, though I think I beat DeepSleep by a short head with my post lol

[CarlosG815]

Its all about opinion and you are very entitled to yours.
Tyson was a very good fighter but I think Ali is a very bad match up for him.
Foreman is a terrible style match up for Tyson but i'd give him more chance there than against Ali.
I think that many think that Tyson has a good chance because Ali struggled with Frazier but Tyson and Frazier are very different styles. Tyson doesn't have Frazier's inside ability or Frazier's mental toughness.

Did you seriously just say that? Have you ever watched the footage? If you mean he doesn't get hit in the face as much as Frazier when he's on the inside then I agree. Tyson could get inside without being touched, whereas Frazier would use his face to block shots as he made his way inside.

[Forza]

Well like somebody else said you can break down anybodies record like that. Ali was hardly the darling the boxing promoters made him look like but I still think he was the greatest HW of all time. And you can't compare him to tyson. Tyson was just a glorified bum beater. Ali wouldve finished him in the 1st round....

[GJC]

Did you seriously just say that? Have you ever watched the footage? If you mean he doesn't get hit in the face as much as Frazier when he's on the inside then I agree. Tyson could get inside without being touched, whereas Frazier would use his face to block shots as he made his way inside.

Agreed Frazier would take shots to get inside but once he got on a fighters chest he was devastating.
I think you would struggle to find me an example of Tyson being effective inside, but I would point you to the Bonecrusher fight.
If Smith could tie up Tyson, Ali would wrap him up and put him in his pocket.

[F l i c k e r]

frazier robbed himself during that fight.He robbed himself of his own manhood by quitting on his stool rather than going out like a man and getting his brittle chin cracked by his feather fisted superior.


Nothing to do with a cut mouth I'm afraid.I wouldn't expect an mmgay fan to know any better,so your ignorance is forgiven.

Are you fucking ******?

Frazier didn't do **** to end that fight. He was outraged when the ref called the fight. The ref ended the fight because of Frazier's cut up mouth. The ref told him "don't worry son, everyone will remember this fight."

While Ali was over in the other corner telling his coach how he wasn't going to continue no matter what. Then passing out right when the ref ended the fight.

If that fight would have continue Ali would have lost. And it undebateable because in no time at all Ali passed out after the fight was called over. Not to mention HE SAID HIMSELF, that he wasn't going to continue.

Thats a robbery if I have ever seen one.

[billionaire]

Are you fucking ******?

Frazier didn't do **** to end that fight. He was outraged when the ref called the fight. The ref ended the fight because of Frazier's cut up mouth. The ref told him "don't worry son, everyone will remember this fight."

While Ali was over in the other corner telling his coach how he wasn't going to continue no matter what. Then passing out right when the ref ended the fight.

If that fight would have continue Ali would have lost. And it undebateable because in no time at all Ali passed out after the fight was called over. Not to mention HE SAID HIMSELF, that he wasn't going to continue.

Thats a robbery if I have ever seen one.

did you watch the entire fight or just some half assed documentary? it was a back n forth fight ending with frazier getting owned in the 14th....lol at a robbery when his own corner stopped the fight...dont bother arguing just do some research...

[Princemanzpoper]

Are you ****ing ******?

Frazier didn't do **** to end that fight. He was outraged when the ref called the fight. The ref ended the fight because of Frazier's cut up mouth. The ref told him "don't worry son, everyone will remember this fight."

While Ali was over in the other corner telling his coach how he wasn't going to continue no matter what. Then passing out right when the ref ended the fight.

If that fight would have continue Ali would have lost. And it undebateable because in no time at all Ali passed out after the fight was called over. Not to mention HE SAID HIMSELF, that he wasn't going to continue.

Thats a robbery if I have ever seen one.

You will be looking in the mirror and asking yourself that question once you actually start learning something about the sport.Watching "Da Pacman" and hbo 24/7 doesn't make you a boxing fan.


I really don't know how far I can take an argument with an mmgay fan who not only hasn't watched fight in question,but doesn't even know the details of fight in question.....but I will do my best.


You will not find one source that will tell you that the referee stopped the fight,why you may ask? It may have something to do with the fact that no ring official did stop it.So not only are you an obvious newb,but you couldn't even run along to boxrec like the average newb would.


frazier did "****" by telling his corner to stop the fight,hence the corner retirement.He could no longer take the savage beating he was receiving from his feather fisted superior.


Watching a documentary clearly doesn't give a clueless mmgay fan such as yourself a very good insight.



Stick to mmgay in future,there's a good lad.

[GJC]

My understanding of it was that neither the referee nor Frazier stopped the fight, it was Eddie Futch. Futch had noticed that Frazier could barely see and gave him one more round, the fourteenth. When Frazier took even more punishment in that round he stopped the fight over Frazier's objections. I have never bought into the legend that Ali would not have come out for the 15th, Ali like Frazier was a warrior and both would have been there at the start of the 15th if they had their way.