Best fighter ever, pre 1940.

[EzzardFan]

I should have thought about Choynski on 'the greatest fighters never to win the title' thread.. He had an incredible resume for the era that he fought in..
Although he lost 3 times to Jim Corbett during his early career, he fought a multitude of world champions, but mostly at the wrong times..
He KO'd a young Jack Johnson in 3 rounds, and fought draws with Jeffries, Fitzsimmons, Marvin Hart, and Kid McCoy but also lost to the latter on 2 occasions.. He lost 2 or 3 times to Philly Jack O'Brien aswell, but this was way late in his career..

I second this.

[sonnyboyx2]

Freddie Steele

[mickey malone]

Freddie Steele

Probably the most underrated quality champion of all time..
Only Robinson, Ali and Pep belong in the same sentence when it comes to footwork..

[Spartacus Sully]

"I am going into this fight for the sole purpose of proving that a white man is better than a Negro." -James J. Jeffries

Yeah he was all class just like you, right?

Given the time period and the air around the jeffries vs johnson fight i would consider that quite a modest and respectable statement. perhaps one of higher quality then anything else that was said by any white man leading up to the fight.

I would consider it no diffrent then an American saying that his reason to fight is to prove that Americans are better then Europeans while all the other Americans are calling for a public execution in the ring of the any European slur you could think of.

atleast he didnt say :"You're not even in my league! I would never let a white boy beat me. I would never lose to a white boy. I couldn't go back to the projects if I let a white boy beat me." cause thats just rude and disrespectful.

and what did hopkins have to say after the fight?

“I believe I won the fight,” Hopkins said. “I know questions will be asked and it was close. But when all is said and done history will reflect well on Bernard Hopkins. I got beaten tonight but it wasn’t by Joe Calzaghe.”

and Jeffies?

He showed a little class and said something along the lines of " i could have never beat johnson even in my prime" though i cant find that actual quote at the moment.

[JAB5239]

Given the time period and the air around the jeffries vs johnson fight i would consider that quite a modest and respectable statement. perhaps one of higher quality then anything else that was said by any white man leading up to the fight.

As a fighter I give Jeffries much respect. But there is nothing respectable about claiming to fight in the name of white superiority. I hardly think that is modest or respectable, especially considering the time. I understand the era and the circumstance, that still doesn't make it right.

[Spartacus Sully]

As a fighter I give Jeffries much respect. But there is nothing respectable about claiming to fight in the name of white superiority. I hardly think that is modest or respectable, especially considering the time. I understand the era and the circumstance, that still doesn't make it right.

really my thoughts was the whole thing was about money. in this time period whos gonna be richer whites or blacks? and whos the richer group gonna bet on the current heavy weight champ or the white guy thats been out of it for 6 years and just spent the last 3 months loosing 100 lbs? sad to say but they're gonna back the past prime jeffries. jeffries only said what he needed to say to keep the money on him with out any derogatory terms and with out insulting the opponents character. he simply stated what he believed and what he was tought growing up. his statement was not ****y and he was not insulting beyond stating his belief maintaining modesty and being as respectful as any one could while disagreeing with some one elses beliefs.

a belief is a belief and i find no wrong doing in having a belief. to test that belief, given that you arnt in any way restricting any one elses rights, i find no wrong doing. in fact allowing for the belief to be tested might even be more righteous then just having a belief

But to create and act apon assumed rights biased off this belief especially in cases that restrict other peoples rights is wrong disrespectful and overly prideful, along with being absloutley nothing like what jeffries did.

and what happened when his belief was disproven? did he blame it on his 6 year lay off no he said that he would have never beaten him even in his prime he had no excuses when he lost and took like a man and with class to boot but was that enough? no jeffries even went as far as to rate johnson as #1 heavy weight ever in his auto biography.

As a human being i would rate him with Marciano as a boxer before 1940 i would rate him at the top.

[JAB5239]

really my thoughts was the whole thing was about money. in this time period whos gonna be richer whites or blacks? and whos the richer group gonna bet on the current heavy weight champ or the white guy thats been out of it for 6 years and just spent the last 3 months loosing 100 lbs? sad to say but they're gonna back the past prime jeffries. jeffries only said what he needed to say to keep the money on him with out any derogatory terms and with out insulting the opponents character. he simply stated what he believed and what he was tought growing up. his statement was not ****y and he was not insulting beyond stating his belief maintaining modesty and being as respectful as any one could while disagreeing with some one elses beliefs.

First off money had nothing to do with his comment. He was getting paid regardless. Second, most people in the KKK were brought up to think the way they do. Does that make them any less racist?

a belief is a belief and i find no wrong doing in having a belief. to test that belief, given that you arnt in any way restricting any one elses rights, i find no wrong doing. in fact allowing for the belief to be tested might even be more righteous then just having a belief

So you are ok with one race claiming superiority based on skin color and treating others like second class citizens? I mean if thats their belief its ok and you don't find anything wrong with it, right?

But to create and act apon assumed rights biased off this belief especially in cases that restrict other peoples rights is wrong disrespectful and overly prideful, along with being absloutley nothing like what jeffries did.

Just saying it adds fuel to the fire for those who would restrict another humans rights. The fact that Jeff saw nothing wrong with that makes it racist in itself.

and what happened when his belief was disproven? did he blame it on his 6 year lay off no he said that he would have never beaten him even in his prime he had no excuses when he lost and took like a man and with class to boot but was that enough? no jeffries even went as far as to rate johnson as #1 heavy weight ever in his auto biography.

Have you ever heard the saying "you can't unring a bell"? words stick and they influence other people. Because he didn't make any excuses doesn't mean he thought any differently about Johnson as a man. And rating him number 1 is self serving.

As a human being i would rate him with Marciano as a boxer before 1940 i would rate him at the top.

You'd rate Jeffries better than Armstrong, Tunney, Greb, Gans, Leonard, Canzoneri, Ross, Langford etc., etc., etc.? Hmmmm!

[MonsieurGeorges]

Gotta be Armstrong, Benny Leonard or Joey Gans

[Spartacus Sully]

First off money had nothing to do with his comment. He was getting paid regardless. Second, most people in the KKK were brought up to think the way they do. Does that make them any less racist?

how do they act? its not what you believe that makes you a racists and its not even what you say its how you act and what you say to hurt. I hear rappers say the n word all the time does that mean they hate African Americans? if the child of a kkk member grew up never taking part in anything related to the kkk never took part in any mis deeds against ********** hell never even told racial jokes but firmly maintained that his race was a superior race im pretty sure it makes him less racist.

So you are ok with one race claiming superiority based on skin color and treating others like second class citizens? I mean if thats their belief its ok and you don't find anything wrong with it, right?

Im ok with one man (not one race) claiming racial superiority in such a situation done with out slangs and slurs. if thats his belief and hes doing what hes doing to put it to the test thats absolutely fine by me.

Just saying it adds fuel to the fire for those who would restrict another humans rights. The fact that Jeff saw nothing wrong with that makes it racist in itself.

adds fuel to the fire? because it wasn't untill that moment in time white people started thinking that they were better then any other race? he threw a foot long stick into a forest fire a cup of heavy water into the sun.

Have you ever heard the saying "you can't unring a bell"? words stick and they influence other people. Because he didn't make any excuses doesn't mean he thought any differently about Johnson as a man. And rating him number 1 is self serving.

true but i dont think he was trying to take back what he said i think he was trying to make the real reasons for what he said more clear or atleast show that what he said wasnt said with hurtful intentions.

You'd rate Jeffries better than Armstrong, Tunney, Greb, Gans, Leonard, Canzoneri, Ross, Langford etc., etc., etc.? Hmmmm!

dont know enough about armstrong, yes id say better then tunny greb gans and langford dont know enough about leonard canzoneri or ross either.

Take any boxer you want to compare jeffries to, count up all the fights they had with the top boxers of their time figure out what percent those fights are of the total fights the boxer had and im sure jeffries will allways have a higher percentage. in his prime he fought some of the hardest men to walk the earth only to never be koed and never knocked down, in his prime.

[JAB5239]

how do they act? its not what you believe that makes you a racists and its not even what you say its how you act and what you say to hurt. I hear rappers say the n word all the time does that mean they hate African Americans? if the child of a kkk member grew up never taking part in anything related to the kkk never took part in any mis deeds against ********** hell never even told racial jokes but firmly maintained that his race was a superior race im pretty sure it makes him less racist.



Im ok with one man (not one race) claiming racial superiority in such a situation done with out slangs and slurs. if thats his belief and hes doing what hes doing to put it to the test thats absolutely fine by me.



adds fuel to the fire? because it wasn't untill that moment in time white people started thinking that they were better then any other race? he threw a foot long stick into a forest fire a cup of heavy water into the sun.



true but i dont think he was trying to take back what he said i think he was trying to make the real reasons for what he said more clear or atleast show that what he said wasnt said with hurtful intentions.



dont know enough about armstrong, yes id say better then tunny greb gans and langford dont know enough about leonard canzoneri or ross either.

Take any boxer you want to compare jeffries to, count up all the fights they had with the top boxers of their time figure out what percent those fights are of the total fights the boxer had and im sure jeffries will allways have a higher percentage. in his prime he fought some of the hardest men to walk the earth only to never be koed and never knocked down, in his prime.

We're not going to find any level ground on this, I can already tell, so I'll let it go before either of us gets off track and turns this thread into a flame,

I believe all the fighters I named were better p4p fighters than Jeff. That isn't meant to diminish what he accomplished, these men just did more. Beat better fighters, more longevity. I'll add Johnson to that list as well. Besides Tunney all took on the very best of the best regardless of color. Unfortunately Jeffries cannot claim this.