Ali post 1971 come back fights - what if...

[sonnyboyx2]

Frazier did hurt Ali big time in Manilla.
Remember seeing something years ago by a brain surgeon and he said that the damage is done by the head being shaken from side to side. Frazier was not as big a hitter as Shavers and Foreman but it could be that the amount of punches he landed caused more damage. Also those body shots were murderous.
At the end of the day Ali went on too long he sadly liked the glory too much.

Jeeez that made me laugh "Frazier not as big a hitter as Shavers & Foreman"... who did Shavers ever KO other than old Norton?
Muhammad Ali claimed Frazier hit him the hardest in his career... Larry Holmes in his book "Against the odds" claimed Frazier hit the hardest (Holmes was a sparring partner)... Jerry Quarry who fought both Shavers & Frazier said Frazier hit harder... i know it is claimed by some that Shavers was the hardest hitter ever... but who did he ever KO? his knock down of Holmes was not in the league as Renaldo Snipes knock down of Holmes or Mike Tyson knocking Holmes out.. Tex Cobb claimed Shavers hit the hardest but who else did Cobb ever fight ?

getting back to the subject, Frazier claimed in the book "Ghosts of Manilla" That he set out to damage Ali in that fight, he told Eddie Futch to NOT stop the fight days before fight-night, because he wanted to physically damage Muhammad Ali... when Ali walks into a room today that Frazier is in, Frazier always says, "see him, i done that to him" and grins

[TheGreatA]

That is Rubbish about Shavers doing most damage to Ali... Joe Frazier damaged Ali in Manilla and he done it deliberately, Muhammad Ali also took a terrible beating from Larry Holmes... Arcgie Moore was not with Foreman when George made his comeback, Foremans brother was in his corner then Angelo Dundee came in once George upped his level of competition

Archie Moore helped train Foreman until Foreman fought Evander Holyfield.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BfQ...age&q=&f=false

Jeeez that made me laugh "Frazier not as big a hitter as Shavers & Foreman"... who did Shavers ever KO other than old Norton?
Muhammad Ali claimed Frazier hit him the hardest in his career... Larry Holmes in his book "Against the odds" claimed Frazier hit the hardest (Holmes was a sparring partner)... Jerry Quarry who fought both Shavers & Frazier said Frazier hit harder... i know it is claimed by some that Shavers was the hardest hitter ever... but who did he ever KO? his knock down of Holmes was not in the league as Renaldo Snipes knock down of Holmes or Mike Tyson knocking Holmes out.. Tex Cobb claimed Shavers hit the hardest but who else did Cobb ever fight ?

Ali and Holmes both said Shavers was the biggest puncher they ever faced. Ali said Shavers was "much stronger" than Frazier.



http://books.google.com/books?id=qn2...age&q=&f=false

Shavers dropped Holmes like a ton of bricks and it was certainly a much heavier knockdown than the one Snipes managed. Holmes was unconscious as he hit the floor.


2:20

getting back to the subject, Frazier claimed in the book "Ghosts of Manilla" That he set out to damage Ali in that fight, he told Eddie Futch to NOT stop the fight days before fight-night, because he wanted to physically damage Muhammad Ali... when Ali walks into a room today that Frazier is in, Frazier always says, "see him, i done that to him" and grins

Which is why he nearly burst to tears when describing Ali's condition in the latest Ali documentary. We all know about Frazier's bitterness but there are two sides to it. He is not just some vengeful blood-thirsty maniac as you're describing him.

[sonnyboyx2]

this is off a site that measured the punches power...

"I work at the Physical Research Center, and we test the PSI (Pounds per square Inch) in Many Boxers, and in terms of the hardest punch ever recorded is recorded by a Boxer named "Smokin" Joe Frazier in 1973, it was 2700 PSI, which is the equivalent to being hit with a small club, this was until Manny Pacquiao broke this record by a mile with a record shattering 3000 PSI Haymaker, equivalent to a heavy blow to the head with a hammer. If you need help finding a reasonable resource, Visit Scientists at Swansea University. We always do research on strength and human capacity of physical capability. We have a website www.swansea.ac.uk."

[sonnyboyx2]

Archie Moore trained Foreman until Foreman fought Evander Holyfield.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BfQ...age&q=&f=false



Ali and Holmes both said Shavers was the biggest puncher they ever faced. Ali said Shavers was "much stronger" than Frazier.



http://books.google.com/books?id=qn2...age&q=&f=false

Shavers dropped Holmes like a ton of bricks and it was certainly a much heavier knockdown than the one Snipes managed. Holmes was unconscious as he hit the floor.


2:20



Which is why he nearly burst to tears when describing Ali's condition in the latest Ali documentary. We all know about Frazier's bitterness but there are two sides to it. He is not just some vengeful blood-thirsty maniac as you're describing him.

ive never described him as some "vengeful blood-thirsty maniac" as you claim... those are the words of Thomas Hausser - Ali`s biographer as he told it on the recent CH4 Documentary about The Thriller in Mallia.... you should watch it

[Method Checker]

this is off a site that measured the punches power...

"I work at the Physical Research Center, and we test the PSI (Pounds per square Inch) in Many Boxers, and in terms of the hardest punch ever recorded is recorded by a Boxer named "Smokin" Joe Frazier in 1973, it was 2700 PSI, which is the equivalent to being hit with a small club, this was until Manny Pacquiao broke this record by a mile with a record shattering 3000 PSI Haymaker, equivalent to a heavy blow to the head with a hammer. If you need help finding a reasonable resource, Visit Scientists at Swansea University. We always do research on strength and human capacity of physical capability. We have a website www.swansea.ac.uk."

Pacquiao punches harder than Frazier? Please..

[TBear]

I think Ali would have been better off if he didn't come back and absorb the beatings from Holmes and Berbick as well.

[TheGreatA]

ive never described him as some "vengeful blood-thirsty maniac" as you claim... those are the words of Thomas Hausser - Ali`s biographer as he told it on the recent CH4 Documentary about The Thriller in Mallia.... you should watch it

The Thrilla in Manila documentary was terribly biased and they did attempt to portray Frazier as exactly that. I'm sure he is not "proud" of causing Ali's illness, his bitterness simply gets the better of him at times. For the most part he has been nice to Ali in recent interviews, wishing him well and hoping his condition will improve. But it doesn't seem to be what people want to hear from him, especially the reporters.

[Sugarj]

I've seen both sides of Frazier in different interviews over the years. He is at heart a God fearing family man, but Ali seriously aggravated him in the seventies, Frazier took it more seriously than he perhaps should have. I cant think of many other Ali opponents who see him the way Frazier does. Sometimes he speaks well of Ali, sometimes he is playful and sometimes he is shockingly bitter and is still harbouring resentment.

[Calilloyd]

i dont think u watched the thrilla in manilla.
frazier is just taking the whole time, except the 1 or 2 rounds he won, he didnt do much damage.
ali was tired at the end, thats it.
he took way harder punches from foreman and shavers.
u r right with the holmes fight, it shouldnt have happened, but money talks i guess.
i wish tyson would have fought ali that night, at least tyson had enough power to finish an old ali in the first rounds, larry unfortunately didnt.

It was not just one fighter that did the damage to Ali. It was the accumulation of punches from sparring as well as boxing for 20 years professionally. But nobody can say "this is the fighter that made him this way" because there are too many factors to choose from. Ali stayed around too long and that is what mainly contributed to his declining health. If he retired after the Manilla fight I doubt he would be in the condition he is in today.

[Calilloyd]

I've seen both sides of Frazier in different interviews over the years. He is at heart a God fearing family man, but Ali seriously aggravated him in the seventies, Frazier took it more seriously than he perhaps should have. I cant think of many other Ali opponents who see him the way Frazier does. Sometimes he speaks well of Ali, sometimes he is playful and sometimes he is shockingly bitter and is still harbouring resentment.

Frazier seems to have finally put it behind him even shedding a tear when speaking of Ali. He also seems to have been genuinely hurt by Ali's taunting. This is seen in the new documentary "facing Ali". I hope Frazier stays the way he was in the documentary