Who was better?

[Obama]

DLH couldn't hold JCC's jockstrap.

And a prime Oscar doesn't potentially beat a prime Chavez based on style. If he does beat him, which is a pretty big if, he beats him on size. It's like expecting SRL to beat RJJ. Size is a serious issue.

[mhager91490]

Add Jose Luis Ramirez to that.



Oscar was beaten by better opposition. He lost most of his big fights.

Ramirez was not a big one-punch guy, he has a great KO record but a lot of fighters on it are guys you never had or will hear of. He could punch no doubt and if he caught you right he could put you away but he didn't have the power that DLH had in the lower weight divisions.

Rosario's problem with Chavez is that he couldn't string his combinations together or land clean enough to take a toll on him. I also think that Oscar was the better one-punch guy in comparision to Rosario, though the difference isn't all that much.

[blacklodge]

I think of how troubled a young, pre-prime DLH was by a slightly post-prime, inferior in every respect John John Molina. DLH was in the cradle of his prime at 140 (his best weight, if you ask me) when he was given a decent fight and a black eye by a true poor man's JCC in Miguel Angel Gonzales. DLH never responded well to pressure. JCC beats DLH at 130 and 135. DLH beats Chavez at 140, and I don't regard Chavez at 147 to be relevant at all. Chavez is one of those guys who just showed up one day an old man. It's pre-Whitaker and post-Whitaker.
DLH should have been a greater fighter than Chavez, but wasn't. His career derailed after Trinidad (the fact that he clearly won that fight is only a footnote now), and it was Trinidad who followed the path that DLH should have, which is move up and beat David Reid and Fernando Vargas, move up and beat Joppy or Holmes and then lost to Hopkins. All that stuff happens, he eclipses JCC and moves into top 25 P4P ATG status. Although I still think he was on task for Mosely I, he just lost (pressure again). I think he stopped training. His physique was soft, his skin was pale, his hand speed declined, his wind was gone, and his focus would drift, even in his best performances.
Whereas Chavez did all he could do I think, DLH is going to look back with some serious regret.

[adrian62]

Chavez left it all in the ring time and time again and never quit til the fight was over. He was a true warrior. With that being said Chavez gets the nod over De La Hoya.this coming from a Hardcore fan of both.

[mickey malone]

Oscar De La Hoya or Julio Cesar Chavez? I personally believe that, although Chavez was a very tough guy and excellent fighter, he wouldn't do much better against Oscar in his prime than he did in their two fights. After all, in the first fight he was only 34 I believe. And the effect of Oscar's power on him was clearly displayed and proven. I'm not sure if Chavez ever fought anybody with Oscar's power AND quickness. Really, has he ever beaten a really big puncher?

Anyway, Oscar had all the advantages, the height, the speed and a better jab. And he hit as hard as Chavez.

I agree with you about 50% here..

In fairness, 34 for a guy whose had over 100 fights in 4 divisions Should be considered old, as DLH himself, knows only too well!

Not only was DLH younger (their fights were in 96 & 98 respectively), but he was also a hell of a lot bigger than Chavez..

Had DLH fought the version of JCC that totally dominated Camacho in 92, I'd still edge towards DLH styles wise, but only by a 'knats ****'..

[Silencers]

Chavez will probably rank higher in an all time list but I feel DLH was the better skilled fighter of the two.

[Benncollinsaad]

Add Jose Luis Ramirez to that.



Oscar was beaten by better opposition. He lost most of his big fights.

Not really. I think he only lost the Mayweather and Hopkins fights. First Mosley fight was more likely a draw. And the second we don't even have to mention.

[Clegg]

You'd have to be a pretty big fan of Oscar's to score the fights with Quartey, Sweet Pea, Tito, Mosley x2 and Sturm all for DLH.

[Obama]

You'd have to be a pretty big fan of Oscar's to score the fights with Quartey, Sweet Pea, Tito, Mosley x2 and Sturm all for DLH.

Indubitably.

[blacklodge]

You'd have to be a pretty big fan of Oscar's to score the fights with Quartey, Sweet Pea, Tito, Mosley x2 and Sturm all for DLH.

I had the Quartey fight even going into the last round, and scored the 12th a 10-7 round for the knockdown and the thrashing DLH gave Quartey on the ropes (the last we ever saw of THAT Oscar, what the hell happened?). I scored the DLH-Whitaker at best 7-5 in favor of DLH, with the "knockdown" making it a draw (I cannot find more than 5 rounds that Whitaker deserved, probably more like 4, not that DLH was impressive at all). I had DLH-Trinidad 7-5 for DLH (again, no way Trinidad won more than 5, and one of those early rounds that I gave to Tito was close). Mosely I was 7-5 Mosely, who pulled out the fight late. Mosely II was 8-4 DLH, and may have been worse than the Trinidad decision. I had the Strum fight at the time 6-6, probably generous to DLH. Considering that this fight was setting up DLH-Hopkins, Sturm needed to really BEAT DLH, and he was content to block body shots and jab all night. He probably won, but I have a hard time feeling bad for the guy. Welcome to the real world of boxing, Felix, don't let the door hit you in the booty on the way out.

DLH's status with me started as all hype, then I gained serious respect, then I lost serious respect. But I don't think it's out of the question for all those fights to have gone DLH's way. He was robbed against Trinidad and Mosely II (the shock and awe on both their faces as the decision was announced told me everything I needed to know, particularly Mosely II), the others meet my definition of close fights. If your scoring prefers ineffective agression to ineffective ring generalship. I don't consider those to be equal commodities.