Howard Davis Junior.

[smeck]

Awhile back I read that Davis was a vegetarian. Any possibility that was why he wasn't very strong, he was a light puncher and didn't take a good punch?

Meat is not essential for humans, any more than it is for gorillas -- who are pretty damn powerful. A lot of very lithe animals exist on vegetation.

Thing is, it's important to load up on vegetables that have some proteins to them, and if needed, take some vitamin supplements...Vitamin B, D, a few others. While soy products weren't as numerous then as now, Davis always looked very fit, and wasn't known to fade in the later rounds.

He did seem to have problems with his hands and was a light puncher. Nothing to do with his diet.

No meat for Bryant Jennings, Eder Jofre, Livingstone Bramble, Timothy Bradley, Vassiliy Jirov, etc. I think Hopkins and Holyfield were vegatarians or became vegetarians late in their careers.

David Haye, who is vegan: "It's a myth that you need meat for strength.
"I have a full-time chef and a good nutritionist who makes sure I get all the minerals and nutrients required."

[QueensburyRules]

David Haye, who is vegan: "It's a myth that you need meat for strength.
"I have a full-time chef and a good nutritionist who makes sure I get all the minerals and nutrients required."

- -Yet another good reason to turn down a Haye garden party dinner.

Sprouts on shredded radishes with periwinkle sprinkles.

[OctoberRed]

- -Yet another good reason to turn down a Haye garden party dinner.

Sprouts on shredded radishes with periwinkle sprinkles.

hahahahahahaha

[Rusty Tromboni]

Amazing, amazing thread. Zombie or not, this is great reading.

Pryor was a savage, and probably more suited to the Pros than the Ammies.

I have always heard that Davis was one of the best coaches at ATT. In fact, one champion they produced - using a technically sound punch against an unorthodox fighter - claims he was his BEST coach. with all those world class coaches from so many different systems, what does that tell you? And apparently Davis is the one he most replicates now that he's coaching. Ahem.

Speaking of ATT fighters. Look at how much better Woodley and Covington have done than guys like Askren. It's jumping from Wrestling to MMA, but it's the same idea as jumpingfrom the Amateurs to the Pros - things change, and fighters need to as well. Sometimes, though, it's just a matter of heart.

Explaining why an amateur athlete doesn't make "the leap" is complicated. But really, it breaks down to two things: desire and adaptability. You absolutely must have both.

It's kinda like asking an Olympic Fencer to run out on a medieval battlefield and engage knights in melee combat.

Meat is not essential for humans, any more than it is for gorillas -- who are pretty damn powerful. A lot of very lithe animals exist on vegetation.

Thing is, it's important to load up on vegetables that have some proteins to them, and if needed, take some vitamin supplements...Vitamin B, D, a few others. While soy products weren't as numerous then as now, Davis always looked very fit, and wasn't known to fade in the later rounds.

He did seem to have problems with his hands and was a light puncher. Nothing to do with his diet.

No meat for Bryant Jennings, Eder Jofre, Livingstone Bramble, Timothy Bradley, Vassiliy Jirov, etc. I think Hopkins and Holyfield were vegatarians or became vegetarians late in their careers.

David Haye, who is vegan: "It's a myth that you need meat for strength.
"I have a full-time chef and a good nutritionist who makes sure I get all the minerals and nutrients required."

Yeah, these dudes on vegetarian diets were definitely eating way better than I was when I was trying to make 157 on my air and sunlight diet. And Wrestling is far more explosive than Boxing.

Just the words "steamed broccolli" would have made my mouth water... If I were able to produce saliva, that is.

[smeck]

Just the words "steamed broccolli" would have made my mouth water... If I were able to produce saliva, that is.

Lol. Vegetarians in the Howard Davis era probably had to acquire a taste for broccoli (and no butter sauce!). Mexican fighters could do ok with bean and cheese burritos, unless they were Vegan.

Quite a lot of strong-looking Vegan athletes these days. There are also "lean and mean" people in general, like Simon Cowell, who lost 20 pounds and looks healthy. I think he had a health-scare that got him into it.

McCartney still doing 3 hour shows. Of course guys like him can find a cook to produce great meals that you don't even realize are vegan. I think his late wife Linda's frozen food company is still in business.

Thanks to veggie burgers, fake bacon, tofu hot dogs, soy turkey sandwiches etc. people used to meat can taper down without having to eat nothing but salad. But... vegan cheese...is one of the FAILS.

Going vegan seems to require a lot of tenacity and discipline, which might come more from a belief in not harming animals than health worries alone. Swipe some honey from a bee, pull on a cow's teats...that doesn't seem so bad. Especially if somebody else is doing it for me.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Lol. Vegetarians in the Howard Davis era probably had to acquire a taste for broccoli (and no butter sauce!). Mexican fighters could do ok with bean and cheese burritos, unless they were Vegan.

Quite a lot of strong-looking Vegan athletes these days. There are also "lean and mean" people in general, like Simon Cowell, who lost 20 pounds and looks healthy. I think he had a health-scare that got him into it.

McCartney still doing 3 hour shows. Of course guys like him can find a cook to produce great meals that you don't even realize are vegan. I think his late wife Linda's frozen food company is still in business.

Thanks to veggie burgers, fake bacon, tofu hot dogs, soy turkey sandwiches etc. people used to meat can taper down without having to eat nothing but salad. But... vegan cheese...is one of the FAILS.

Going vegan seems to require a lot of tenacity and discipline, which might come more from a belief in not harming animals than health worries alone. Swipe some honey from a bee, pull on a cow's teats...that doesn't seem so bad. Especially if somebody else is doing it for me.

Well said. But I'll go one further.

I've really let myself go over the years. But I'll be the first to say, cleaning up a diet and dropping meat and useless starch is pretty easy if you're willing/able to access quality produce. Really, the better quality and the less processed (and better prepared) the fruit and vegetables, the more seamless the transition is.

It does take more work, time, money, and thinking, though. Usually.

And I am not writing off meat. I just don't think people need as much as they think they do. Definitely not for being fit. Nor do they really eat as much meat, and certainly not quality meat, as they think the do. How many ounces of grass-fed perfectly cooked beef are on that McDonald's BigMac, again? When people say they like meat, they usually mean they like dishes that include meat; whether they can distinguish its quality, or not.

[QueensburyRules]

Going vegan seems to require a lot of tenacity and discipline, which might come more from a belief in not harming animals than health worries alone. Swipe some honey from a bee, pull on a cow's teats...that doesn't seem so bad. Especially if somebody else is doing it for me.

- -Harry Wills a reputed vege and faster to boot.

If veges don't want to harm animals, then they should cease to exist.

Smaller footprint of destruction perhaps depending on the rest of their lifestyle, but just think of all that lettuce et al screaming when crudely chopped from their roots.

Murder in the first degree!

[smeck]

If veges don't want to harm animals, then they should cease to exist.

"But people have always eaten people,
What else is there to eat?
If the Juju had meant us not to eat people,
He wouldn't have made us of meat!"

(from "The Reluctant Cannibal," song by the British comedy team Flanders & Swann).

Funny thing to me is people who chow down on chicken or pig or rabbit...but get upset about Koreans eating dogs or somebody killing a feral cat. "Cats and dogs...feel pain and fear and have emotions," but other animals don't?

Today most cannibals are considered demented, but when they were thriving in Africa or South America, it was just a way of life. Conquering soldiers probably ate the vanquished in other parts of the world, too (to the victor go the eyeballs).

Remember when "talk to your plants" was a thing? People insisted plants like music, and like to be talked to. That's a bit like worrying over picking lettuce. Yet some sensitive souls will only eat an apple if it's fallen from the tree.

"Sensitivity" is not a popular trait, but that's why McCartney went vegetarian. He was eating lamb, looked out the window on his Scottish farm, and realized "I'm eating somebody's shoulder."

Chicken? You're using your hands to eat somebody else's leg. Odd. That's why so much meat looks nothing like where it came from. Chicken patties and hot dogs, etc.

I'm not sure how many macho people would want to sit through "The Animals Film" (narrated by Julie Christie) or stare at slaughter house pictures from PETA. "It's cries are human." (line from "Island of Lost Souls," with Charles Laughton as vivisectionist Dr. Moreau).

But nobody likes to be preached at. Not about religion, not about a hamburger. What I liked about McCartney was that he was talking about his own emotion, and not telling other people what to do.

Fun poem, "The Yarn of the Nancy Bell" here's a tempting morsel from it:

"And then we murdered the bo'sun tight,
And he much resembled pig,
Then we whittled free, did the cook and me,
On the crew of the captain's gig...."

[smeck]

- -Yet another good reason to turn down a Haye garden party dinner.

Sprouts on shredded radishes with periwinkle sprinkles.

And another good reason -- corn rows.

[The Old LefHook]

I will Davis credit for the fastest pair of mitts ever in boxing. That is his lasting claim to fame. Beaten by meat eaters, of course.