If Cus Damato Lived And Continued To Train Tyson

[StarshipTrooper]

I'm just saying. You were proudly defending your list when it comes to being based off of ability. You just haven't seen Fitzsimmons' ability.

I've researched it. I haven't SEEN Julias Caeser's ability as a general either. I know it was damn good because I've researched the subject. A little education goes a long way.

Poet

[Sergio Martinez]

Cus was never Tyson's trainer, it was Atlas then Rooney. Cus was more like a mentore to him. But Tyson even started disrepecting Cus in the end, so the answer is no.

Teddy Atlas's book is a must buy, for a deeper insight to the world of Cus and Tyson.

[Stoppage]

I've researched it. I haven't SEEN Julias Caeser's ability as a general either. I know it was damn good because I've researched the subject. A little education goes a long way.

Poet

Comparing those two make no sense.

One is about the history someone's reign as a leader. The other about how good a fighter fights (ie. speed, power, movement, etc).

I can easily say that John L. Sullivan had better physical attributes that Fitzsimmons but there would be no way of knowing.

[StarshipTrooper]

Comparing those two make no sense.

One is about the history someone's reign as a leader.

It's about his abilities as a military commander.

The other about how good a fighter fights (ie. speed, power, movement, etc).

I can easily say that John L. Sullivan had better physical attributes that Fitzsimmons but there would be no way of knowing.

That's why they pay boxing historians. Knowledge isn't necessarily a "visual" thing. Do you think for one instant that before the invention of TV nobody knew jack? Afterall, they couldn't actually SEE those things they had knowledge of.

Poet

[Stoppage]

It's about his abilities as a military commander.

Did it mention how good his speed and defense was?

That's why they pay boxing historians. Knowledge isn't necessarily a "visual" thing. Do you think for one instant that before the invention of TV nobody knew jack? Afterall, they couldn't actually SEE those things they had knowledge of.

Poet

Of course, back then, boxing historians would brag about how good late 19th/early 20th century fighters were. They saw them.

The boxing historians of today haven't seen them fight. They only hear stories of how previous historians rated them.

Fighter's today are technically better than fighters of those times. So, if you truly rank on ability, you'll come to grips with the fact that Fitzsimmons can't match up to the fighters of modern day. But does that mean he isn't an all-time great? Of course not. Because of his achievements he's rated highly. And that's where your ranking system shows its flaws.

[StarshipTrooper]

Did it mention how good his speed and defense was?

Of course, back then, boxing historians would brag about how good late 19th/early 20th century fighters were. They saw them.

The boxing historians of today haven't seen them fight. They only hear stories of how previous historians rated them.

Fighter's today are technically better than fighters of those times. So, if you truly rank on ability, you'll come to grips with the fact that Fitzsimmons can't match up to the fighters of modern day. But does that mean he isn't an all-time great? Of course not. Because of his achievements he's rated highly. And that's where your ranking system shows its flaws.

Yawn. Your system shows it's flaws when you rank a fighter higher than someone who'd mop the ring with him simply because he accomplished more. I've said it many times before: While you can argue accomplishments until you're blue in the face my primary concern is with who's the better fighter. Period.

PS. You're coming across as one of those people who say everything you learn in school is BS so stop making us go!

Poet

[Benny Leonard]

Cus was never Tyson's trainer, it was Atlas then Rooney. Cus was more like a mentore to him. But Tyson even started disrepecting Cus in the end, so the answer is no.

Teddy Atlas's book is a must buy, for a deeper insight to the world of Cus and Tyson.

Teddy Atlas?

Rooney disagrees with many things Atlas says as well as ??? forget his name...that were around Tyson at the time and in the house.

Atlas has lots of stories.

The truth tends to lie somewhere in the middle.


Tyson was no saint but I never got the impression from anybody else in that house that Tyson's relationship with Cus was bad.
Everybody has arguements including brothers, Father and Sons, etc.

Tyson was still young, 15, when Atlas left. Not a long time with someone like Tyson since when they first got him. Even Tyson said it took time for him to fully trust and then focus completely on boxing.

[Stoppage]

Yawn. Your system shows it's flaws when you rank a fighter higher than someone who'd mop the ring with him simply because he accomplished more. I've said it many times before: While you can argue accomplishments until you're blue in the face my primary concern is with who's the better fighter. Period.

I don't solely base on accomplishments but I consider them to be the biggest factor in the criteria.

And you completely ignored the fact that I pointed out your faults. Instead of coming to grips with it, you used the "I'm not but you are" argument.

PS. You're coming across as one of those people who say everything you learn in school is BS so stop making us go!

Poet

Like before, you bring in something that doesn't have much to do with the subject.

[GJC]

Did it mention how good his speed and defense was?



Of course, back then, boxing historians would brag about how good late 19th/early 20th century fighters were. They saw them.

The boxing historians of today haven't seen them fight. They only hear stories of how previous historians rated them.

Fighter's today are technically better than fighters of those times. So, if you truly rank on ability, you'll come to grips with the fact that Fitzsimmons can't match up to the fighters of modern day. But does that mean he isn't an all-time great? Of course not. Because of his achievements he's rated highly. And that's where your ranking system shows its flaws.

Hey stoppage there must be a queue forming to have a pop at Poet in this forum don't be greedy
You sure there is no footage of Fitz, I know there isn't much but I'm sure i've seen some and no I'm not that old!

[StarshipTrooper]

I don't solely base on accomplishments but I consider them to be the biggest factor in the criteria.

And you completely ignored the fact that I pointed out your faults. Instead of coming to grips with it, you used the "I'm not but you are" argument.

Did it occur to you that I may not feel like explaining it for the 1,000th time? My position on the issue of comparing fighters between eras is on record and well known. If YOU don't know it then I would direct you to your "search" button.

Like before, you bring in something that doesn't have much to do with the subject.

I'm bringing it in based on the tenor of YOUR arguments.
I can only suppose you're unfamilier with the concept of using analogies to make a point.

Poet