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It's funny that is what you choose to focus on that and not the FACT that Vits sought the easiest available route to take while Lil brother fought the best fighters of that time..you do everything to divert attention from that in order to protect your heroes reputation.
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@JAB5239
This is VK's best five wins. If you take three common opponents fight between Vital and Wald, Vitali has wins over Sanders and Purity, Wald does not.
And he beat Peter faster and more convincingly.
Wlad had a longer career and fought more top then opponents ( 14+ ) so in that sense he rates higher. But head to head I think Vitali is better and consider their common opponents.
Now, if you know what to talk about, I'm here. But I think you're fixated on who they did not fight and anyone can play that game. The moment you say," but Byrd " is the moment I remind you of the fact that Lewis ducked both Byrd and a re-match with Vitali , dropping a belt and suddenly retiring to avoid them! Haters fixated on such stuff. Are you one of them?
Why don't you reply to this:
Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?
There are two ways to rate people, head-to-head matchups vs the field of ring accomplishments.
For the purpose of this article, let's focus on ring accomplishments and use Ring Magazine, " the bible of boxing " as the standard for ranking them. You may think the heavyweights ranked contenders of modern times would wipe the ring canvas with the heavyweights ranked contenders of the 1920's, 1930's, 1940's, and 1950's as they are much bigger. Like three weight classes bigger and have more defined traditional skills than history's previous giants. Or maybe you feel that the contenders 60-100 years ago were better despite glaring differences in height, weight, and reach and sometimes records of the contenders themselves. Whichever you believe, we can use ring magazine ratings and records achieved as a benchmark for history regardless of which side of the argument you are on
Let's proceed using the standard of Ring Magazine heavyweight champions! Fighters such as Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, V. Klitschko and W. Klitschko. All accomplished heavy weights. These 12 men are who I will use for the study and should be on most top 10 heavyweights list.
Quality of opposition fought. Based on my findings, Vitali was 8-2 against opponents ranked by Ring magazinewhen Vitali fought them.
The list does not include former champions ( Wba, Wbo, Lineal, Ibf or Wbc) such as Herrie Hide or Shannon Brigs or former contenders, only Ring Magazine contenders who were ranked when Vitali fought them.
Unfortunately, Vitali could not have fought his brother, who often occupied the spot of Champion or the number 1 or 2 contender.
1999 RTD by 9 Chris Byrd (#10 at Heavyweight) * shoulder injury, Later Byrd would be th ranked contender. Vitali was way up on all three cards
2003 - TKO by 6 Lennox Lewis (Champion at Heavyweight) * cuts. Again Vitali was leading on all three cards.
2004 - TKO8 Corrie Sanders (#3 at Heavyweight)
2004 TKO8 Danny Williams (#9 at Heavyweight)
2008 - RTD8 Sam Peter (#2 at Heavyweight)
2009 - TKO9 Juan Carlos Gomez (#9 at Heavyweight)
2009 - RTD10 Chris Arreola (#6 at Heavyweight)
2009 - UD12 Kevin Johnson (#10 at Heavyweight)
2011 - KO1 Odlanier Solis ( Number nine at Heavyweight)
2011 - TKO10 Tomasz Adamek (#2 at Heavyweight)
Here Vitali has an 8-2 or 80% winning record. Vitali has a better winning percentage among ring magazine champions than Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Frazier, Ali, Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis. Only Marciano and Holmes have a better winning percentage. Louis, Foreman, Ali, Lewis, Wlad, and Tyson have more total wins over ranked contenders. I would need to check their records on ring magazine's top contenders for the percentage of opponents beaten. Vitali rates in the top ten here among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, and W. Klitschko
Best rounds won to rounds lost ratio: Not only in the history of heavyweights but among all boxing champions. He was towering above Ali or Holmes on the scorecards, who, infact lost more rounds to lesser men. Vitali combined boxing ability, power, size, good footwork, smarts, defense, counterpunching, and ring generalship to the maximum by engaging his opponents and forcing them to fight on his terms. Vitali never trailed on any scorecard after three rounds and never lost more than three consensus rounds in any fight. This includes fights where he was injured ( Byrd and Chisora ). Very impressive. Rates number one overall among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Forman, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, W Klitschko.
Never floored by a punch. Ever. Vitali and Oliver Mcall are the only two in the history of the lineal champions never to be floored by a punch, and Vitali fought plenty of punchers who landed hard to test his chin/durability such as Lewis, Hide, and Sanders. 47 pro fights. Rates Home overall among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Foreman, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, W. Klitschko. In fact this accomplishment rates very highly in all of boxing history
One of the best knock artists of all time, with 87.23% KO ratio. It went down a little with age, and so would any champions. Better than Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Forman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, W Klitschko. This rates Forum of all time among legendary champions.
Other feats:
One of the most active heavyweights on the punch stats, compared to Marciano or Frazier's activity level. Punch stats are not historical records, but this is impressive nonetheless. In boxing the guy who outlands the other wins at least 80% of the time. Often the punch stats are better than some of the official judges, and are used to sniff out bad judgement.
**So far, we are talking about a guy who was incredibly difficult to outbox, was never floored that had had the power and stamina to stop anyone early or late, who stood 6'7" 1/2 tall, weighed 245-250 pounds in shape, an 80" reach**
An all time come back. Which boxer came back four years out of the ring, and no warm up fights not only to take his title back, but to win nine title defenses in a row at age 37-41. The answer is zero. Foreman came back to be Ring Magazine champion over 40, that's it.
Total Title Defenses.
1. Joe Louis 27 title wins NYSAC, NBA
2. Muhammad Ali 23 title wins NYSAC, WBA, WBC
3. Wladimir Klitschko 23 title wins WBA, IBF, WBO
4. Larry Holmes 20 title wins WBC, IBF
5A Lennox Lewis 15 title wins WBA, WBC, IBF
5.B Vitali Klitschko 15 title wins WBC, WBC
That's it. Everyone else is lower.
Made the hall of fame in his first year of eligibility and was the leading vote receiver in his class. A very rare honor.
Using the above benchmarks and history and accomplishments, Vitali Klitschko is one of the top 10 all-time heavyweight champions. Since there is a lot of data here, I reserve the right to edit it, but I ask for proof of any errors found. You will get credit if you find one. Thanks to Mr. Cliff Rold's article, which I used as part of the data, and Wikipedia. The all-time head to rankings would be a different read, but in this man's opinion, Vitali would rate highly there as well.
Last edited by Dr Z; Yesterday, 07:07 AM.Comment
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Why do you want to just take common opponents? And why did you leave out that Wlad was 2-0 against Byrd while Vits was 0-1?
@JAB5239
This is VK's best five wins. If you take three common opponents fight between Vital and Wald, Vitali has wins over Sanders and Purity, Wald does not.
And he beat Peter faster and more convincingly.
Wlad had a longer career and fought more top then opponents ( 14+ ) so in that sense he rates higher. But head to head I think Vitali is better and consider their common opponents.
Now, if you know what to talk about, I'm here. But I think you're fixated on who they did not fight and anyone can play that game. The moment you say," but Byrd " is the moment I remind you of the fact that Lewis ducked both Byrd and a re-match with Vitali , dropping a belt and suddenly retiring to avoid them! Haters fixated on such stuff. Are you one of them?
Why don't you reply to this:
Is Vitali Klitschko an all-time top-ten heavyweight?
There are two ways to rate people, head-to-head matchups vs the field of ring accomplishments.
For the purpose of this article, let's focus on ring accomplishments and use Ring Magazine, " the bible of boxing " as the standard for ranking them. You may think the heavyweights ranked contenders of modern times would wipe the ring canvas with the heavyweights ranked contenders of the 1920's, 1930's, 1940's, and 1950's as they are much bigger. Like three weight classes bigger and have more defined traditional skills than history's previous giants. Or maybe you feel that the contenders 60-100 years ago were better despite glaring differences in height, weight, and reach and sometimes records of the contenders themselves. Whichever you believe, we can use ring magazine ratings and records achieved as a benchmark for history regardless of which side of the argument you are on
Let's proceed using the standard of Ring Magazine heavyweight champions! Fighters such as Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, V. Klitschko and W. Klitschko. All accomplished heavy weights. These 12 men are who I will use for the study and should be on most top 10 heavyweights list.
Quality of opposition fought. Based on my findings, Vitali was 8-2 against opponents ranked by Ring magazinewhen Vitali fought them.
The list does not include former champions ( Wba, Wbo, Lineal, Ibf or Wbc) such as Herrie Hide or Shannon Brigs or former contenders, only Ring Magazine contenders who were ranked when Vitali fought them.
Unfortunately, Vitali could not have fought his brother, who often occupied the spot of Champion or the number 1 or 2 contender.
1999 RTD by 9 Chris Byrd (#10 at Heavyweight) * shoulder injury, Later Byrd would be th ranked contender. Vitali was way up on all three cards
2003 - TKO by 6 Lennox Lewis (Champion at Heavyweight) * cuts. Again Vitali was leading on all three cards.
2004 - TKO8 Corrie Sanders (#3 at Heavyweight)
2004 TKO8 Danny Williams (#9 at Heavyweight)
2008 - RTD8 Sam Peter (#2 at Heavyweight)
2009 - TKO9 Juan Carlos Gomez (#9 at Heavyweight)
2009 - RTD10 Chris Arreola (#6 at Heavyweight)
2009 - UD12 Kevin Johnson (#10 at Heavyweight)
2011 - KO1 Odlanier Solis ( Number nine at Heavyweight)
2011 - TKO10 Tomasz Adamek (#2 at Heavyweight)
Here Vitali has an 8-2 or 80% winning record. Vitali has a better winning percentage among ring magazine champions than Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Frazier, Ali, Holyfield, Bowe, and Lewis. Only Marciano and Holmes have a better winning percentage. Louis, Foreman, Ali, Lewis, Wlad, and Tyson have more total wins over ranked contenders. I would need to check their records on ring magazine's top contenders for the percentage of opponents beaten. Vitali rates in the top ten here among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, and W. Klitschko
Best rounds won to rounds lost ratio: Not only in the history of heavyweights but among all boxing champions. He was towering above Ali or Holmes on the scorecards, who, infact lost more rounds to lesser men. Vitali combined boxing ability, power, size, good footwork, smarts, defense, counterpunching, and ring generalship to the maximum by engaging his opponents and forcing them to fight on his terms. Vitali never trailed on any scorecard after three rounds and never lost more than three consensus rounds in any fight. This includes fights where he was injured ( Byrd and Chisora ). Very impressive. Rates number one overall among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Forman, Holmes, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, W Klitschko.
Never floored by a punch. Ever. Vitali and Oliver Mcall are the only two in the history of the lineal champions never to be floored by a punch, and Vitali fought plenty of punchers who landed hard to test his chin/durability such as Lewis, Hide, and Sanders. 47 pro fights. Rates Home overall among Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Foreman, Tyson, Hoyfleid, Bowe, Lewis, W. Klitschko. In fact this accomplishment rates very highly in all of boxing history
One of the best knock artists of all time, with 87.23% KO ratio. It went down a little with age, and so would any champions. Better than Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Forman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, W Klitschko. This rates Forum of all time among legendary champions.
Other feats:
One of the most active heavyweights on the punch stats, compared to Marciano or Frazier's activity level. Punch stats are not historical records, but this is impressive nonetheless. In boxing the guy who outlands the other wins at least 80% of the time. Often the punch stats are better than some of the official judges, and are used to sniff out bad judgement.
**So far, we are talking about a guy who was incredibly difficult to outbox, was never floored that had had the power and stamina to stop anyone early or late, who stood 6'7" 1/2 tall, weighed 245-250 pounds in shape, an 80" reach**
An all time come back. Which boxer came back four years out of the ring, and no warm up fights not only to take his title back, but to win nine title defenses in a row at age 37-41. The answer is zero. Foreman came back to be Ring Magazine champion over 40, that's it.
Total Title Defenses.
1. Joe Louis 27 title wins NYSAC, NBA
2. Muhammad Ali 23 title wins NYSAC, WBA, WBC
3. Wladimir Klitschko 23 title wins WBA, IBF, WBO
4. Larry Holmes 20 title wins WBC, IBF
5A Lennox Lewis 15 title wins WBA, WBC, IBF
5.B Vitali Klitschko 15 title wins WBC, WBC
That's it. Everyone else is lower.
Made the hall of fame in his first year of eligibility and was the leading vote receiver in his class. A very rare honor.
Using the above benchmarks and history and accomplishments, Vitali Klitschko is one of the top 10 all-time heavyweight champions. Since there is a lot of data here, I reserve the right to edit it, but I ask for proof of any errors found. You will get credit if you find one. Thanks to Mr. Cliff Rold's article, which I used as part of the data, and Wikipedia. The all-time head to rankings would be a different read, but in this man's opinion, Vitali would rate highly there as well.
Ranking fighters H2H is crap. There is nothing objective or factual about it. You can claim a win or a loss for any scenario you want to either lift your own fighter or put down another.
Vits resume is HORRIBLE!! You can try to argue this all you want and I'll keep destroying you. As aan openness I'll ask a question that has already been avoided for a week. Has Vits, as a titlis or highest ranked contender, ever fought the first or second best ring ranked contender after him? You know the answer as do the rest of us. Wlad, the younger more talented and bravery brother took on all the credible opposition of that era while Vits picked and chose his was to the easiest path available. These are facts. Argue agaisnt them if you dare.
And no, Vits isn't even close to being a top 10 ATG heavyweight.Last edited by JAB5239; Yesterday, 10:48 AM.Comment
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vitali was really good, especially as a head to head guy. hes always going to get downgraded on resume and longevity
personally i always liked him and always liked watching his fights and i liked him better than wlad.
Early wlad took more risks but gassed. post Steward wlad was trained in the lewis style of hit and grab, this fixed his stamina and defense issues, made him more dominate but also made him more boring. people forget the jab and grab fests some of the wlad fights were. he spent entire rounds not throwing the right hand.
vitali had a unique style and never changed it. good consistent power in both hands but an accumulation guy not a one punch guy, still high KO ratio. Great stamina, a sneaky defense he had good head movement and used his height fought with his hands low. Iron jaw of course. Also maybe most fan favorite is he didnt HOLD very much he used distance control for defense like bivol and other soviets.Comment
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VO2NcQl2-g you and jab. ARRH HA HA You and queeny. my fav childhood actor walter.Last edited by max baer; Yesterday, 12:21 PM.Comment
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