Sonny Liston one of the greatest

[Biledriver]

You guys have turned this thread into a joke

It's the inevitable fate of any thread that goes on long enough.....or any thread Queenie starts posting in.

[QueensburyRules]

U in school? Controls what? Vlad was a weak champ who did not rematch many of his losses and fought through a very weak division. His brother had the distinction of fighting even weaker competition though to most would have beat his brother. That is hardly control. And Usyk recently defeated Fury... Usyk is a much stronger fighter, but lets see how he fares coming down the stretch.

Your idea of control comes from a guy who pisses on his shoes from a Gin and juice induced haze... It is suspect to say the least.

- - Ks match very well vs historical heavies. That they emasculated UK/US fans was an unfortunate accident waiting to happen.

[solidman]

What happened to my thread? This is a disrespect to the memory of Charles Sonny Liston.

[Biledriver]

What happened to my thread? This is a disrespect to the memory of Charles Sonny Liston.

You'll get used to it. For what it's worth, Queenie derailed my Liston thread. Listen, as a poster you're off to a really good start: Don't let forum drama deter you!

[solidman]

Liston will never be forgotten

[Anomalocaris]

Liston will never be forgotten

Not by true boxing affictionardos he won't.

A stone faced legend and without doubt THE most intimidating fighter of all time.

[solidman]

Not by true boxing affictionardos he won't.

A stone faced legend and without doubt THE most intimidating fighter of all time.

That's what i liked about him. He was a character.

[billeau2]

What happened to my thread? This is a disrespect to the memory of Charles Sonny Liston.

Jurgen Habermas Historian and Gadamer student tells us "Authorship does not historically grant one control over the meaning conveyed by an idea. The author asserts only limited control over the privaleged position of judging historical value and truth of his/her proposition."

Take it from one who learned the hard way: If your going to put anything out there? You better lose your attachment to it.

Want a great example? I wrote for the mags for years, martial arts mostly, some boxing stuff as well. So I had sold one of my articles to Black Belt Magazine, when my friend and student compliments me on that same article... Only it is not in Black Belt Magazine, which makes me think considering I am holding a copy of Black Belt Magazine with my article...

Turns out they, a s c u m b a g who will remain unmentioned, took the article and put it in their mag without telling, paying, or otherwise indicating they had uses the article. But here is the kicker and my point to you: Who was the aggrieved party? who stood to lose? and what were my options? Guess whom Black Belt would have sued if they found the piece? Me. Guess who owned the property (article) Black belt did because I sold it to them! It was not long after that I stopped writing for checks... You do not own anything you let leave your computer... Bottom line.

[billeau2]

Liston will never be forgotten

The Good Lord was asked by a simple Shepard ( A German Shepard!) to make the perfect heavyweight fighter... And in so doing the Lord did fashion arms with two large sledgehammer like fists, arms that extended well into space! And then he put these arms upon a torso of muscle, but not overly so, and chiefly characterized by no spare fat, or otherwise... Then a thick neck with a large head was screwed atop, with two large legs, but just large enough to be muscle and little else with no excess of even that muscle. Then he did breathe into this lifeless Ghoul a breath both sweet and foul... Foul to those who would oppose it in the ring! designed to use pain to transform... And then the Logos was uttered by the Lord bringing this creation to its heals... The Lord Sayething: "I bring you Sonny Liston."

[Dr Z]

Bryd was NOT ranked when he beat Vitali,as you rightly stated his loss to Ike had taken him out of the rankings.Byrd was not ranked again until after he beat Vitali. We have been over this several times and Cliff Rold corrected several assertions made by You Know Who.
Vitali defended against 5 Ring ranked men,Adamek,Gomez,Sanders ,Peter, and Kirk Johnson.Vitali never defended against the number 1 challenger
I don't know why Vitali has crept into a thread on Liston but, since he has ,his resume does not stand comparison to Sonny's and, as far as I am aware no reputable boxing historian ranks him in their top ten.

Liston beat Ring ranked men 8 times. Patterson,DeJohn,Folley.Harris,Machen.Valdes.Hunte r,and he defended against the number 1 challenger twice. Patterson and Ali.
The statement that no one famous ranks Liston in their top ten is total rubbish. The Ring in2017 ranked Liston number 10.Their contributors to the list included many trainers, champions and boxing writers.
For example Herb Goldman put Liston at number2,Richard O Brien ,Senior Editor of Sports Illustrated placed Liston at number3 , Alfie Hamer of Sportster has Liston at number3.Jim Jacobs had Liston in the top 4,Gerald Suster "Champions Of the Ring",has Liston in his top ten,as did Jerry Izenberg and Terry Leigh Lye. Bert Sugar is certainly famous if not particularly respected, he had Liston at no8 .Reg Gutteridge both famous and respected had Liston in his top ten, as did Harry Carpenter and the recently deceased Colin Hart.
Your points on the young, inexperienced Liston ,being thrown in with Summerlin and the 7th ranked Lhvy Marshall,are well taken,but we know they will be ignored,as the ability to perceive context does not figure in the make up of the poster you are debating and winning against.

You arer also correct about Holmes voluntarily leaving ali's camp as a sparring partner to strike out on his own.Larry has many times confirmed this and I've posted his words on this myself.
What relevance demands for others posters lists has to any debate , as in a hostage for hostage deal, escapes me entirely! Then again we are looking for a logical thought process to argue against and that has never been forthcoming!
You are again correct when discussing who is considered the greater fighter.
The Ring 2017 had them as follows.
1.Ali
2.Louis
3.Johnson
4.Marciano.
5. Holmes.
6.Dempsey
7.Foreman
8. Frazier
9.Tyson
10.Liston

Wlad was no16 .
Vitali no 17.

Cough cough. BS

https://www.boxingscene.com/articles...rs-pt-2-vitali

Cilff says hi.





Again using the Ring Magazine rankings as a reasonable gauge of Vitali’s professional years, the below are the men who were ranked in the top ten when Klitschko faced them. Unlike the evaluation of Wladimir, there are no TBRB rankings included as they did not exist during Vitali’s active career. The ranking provided for each foe represents the most recent in Ring’s print edition prior to Klitschko facing them.

• 04/01/2000 - RTD by 9 Chris Byrd (#10 at Heavyweight)
• 06/21/2003 - TKO by 6 Lennox Lewis (Champion at Heavyweight)
• 04/24/2004 - TKO8 Corrie Sanders (#3 at Heavyweight)
• 12/11/2004 - TKO8 Danny Williams (#9 at Heavyweight)
• 10/11/2008 - RTD8 Sam Peter (#2 at Heavyweight)
• 03/21/2009 - TKO9 Juan Carlos Gomez (#9 at Heavyweight)
• 09/26/2009 - RTD10 Chris Arreola (#6 at Heavyweight)
• 12/12/2009 - UD12 Kevin Johnson (#10 at Heavyweight)
• 09/10/2011 - TKO10 Tomasz Adamek (#2 at Heavyweight)

*** Soils was ranked when he fought Vitali as well ...

No charge.