Do Great Fighters Have A Harder Time Than Journeymen Retiring Permanently

[Bundana]

Of course not.

Do you have no faith in 'randomness"?

Our government distributes Congressional representative seats based on the actual count of a census. This is via The Consitution's enumeration.

BUT

Appropriated monies are bssed on predictions made from random sampling. It is more accurate than the actual census count. This has been confirmed multiple times by the CBO.

Now I realize the census is an exception because of it size, but for you to take such extreme stand is incorrect. Random sampling has proven itself valuable.

Random sampling can often produce good results and in this case at least open the door for discussion.

So why are you shutting me down? Why not have some fun and explore the issue ourselves?

That's why I suggested people just throw out the name of a journeyman they know.

Certainly not a large or very random sampling, but also not the 'picking out' you allude to.

I don't mean to shut you down, and I agree it's something that would be fun/interesting to look into. The question is how do we do this?

In my opinion, we need two distinct groups that we can compare: A group of great boxers, that can all be examined, and a similar group of journeymen, where we can look into the record of each individual... without making any personal selections.

As for the first group we could, for example, look at the modern HOF inductees! That's a distinct group of 149 names, and would represent a reasonable (I think) sample of great (or at least very good!) fighters.

But how do we find a similar group of journeymen, to make the comparison? I can't recall having seen anyone come up with such a list. So what can we do... any suggestions?

[Willie Pep 229]

I don't mean to shut you down, and I agree it's something that would be fun/interesting to look into. The question is how do we do this?

In my opinion, we need two distinct groups that we can compare: A group of great boxers, that can all be examined, and a similar group of journeymen, where we can look into the record of each individual... without making any personal selections.

As for the first group we could, for example, look at the modern HOF inductees! That's a distinct group of 149 names, and would represent a reasonable (I think) sample of great (or at least very good!) fighters.

But how do we find a similar group of journeymen, to make the comparison? I can't recall having seen anyone come up with such a list. So what can we do... any suggestions?

Yes!

I must admit I was NOT thinking about the ATGs.

I was going with the assumption that they do in fact often come out of retirement. I was taking that as a given.

I probably should not have approached it in that manner. But the bias in me suggests they do.

You are correct, to properly answer the OP question we would have to compare both groups.

In regards to finding a random sampling I think there are several ways we could do that (but probably won't; too much work lol).

Have ten posters post their ten best known journeymen. Reduce multiples to one entry if necessary, then take the remaining 70 or so names and randomly pick out 20 names, and then look at their five last fights.

The more random the selection the closer we MIGHT get to a truth. But who knows.

I think I am going to start spot checking for this while looking for other things. See if I can see a pattern or not.

Problem, I don't really know whom to call a journeyman. My knowledge doesn't go deep enough.

Worst, now that they put this term 'gatekeeper' in the mix, just about everyone I ever called a journeyman, isn't.

[Slugfester]

I think I would call Shannan Taylor a journeymәn.

[Ivich]

Great fighters seem like the one category that most often unretires. Or do we just follow their movements more?

We probably follow them more.

[Willie Pep 229]

I think I would call Shannan Taylor a journeymәn.

Shannon Taylor -- SR
Jesse Ferguson -- SR
Jorge Fernandez -- FCB

SR - stayed retired
FCB - failed come back
SCB - successful come back (Went at least .750 in CB fights.)

[Willie Pep 229]

SR - stayed retired
FCB - failed come back
SCB - successful come back (Went at least .750 in CB fights.)

Shannon Taylor -- SR
Jesse Ferguson -- SR
Jorge Fernandez -- FCB
Craig Payne -- FCB

[Slugfester]

Yes!

I must admit I was NOT thinking about the ATGs.

I was going with the assumption that they do in fact often come out of retirement. I was taking that as a given.

I probably should not have approached it in that manner. But the bias in me suggests they do.

You are correct, to properly answer the OP question we would have to compare both groups.

In regards to finding a random sampling I think there are several ways we could do that (but probably won't; too much work lol).

Have ten posters post their ten best known journeymen. Reduce multiples to one entry if necessary, then take the remaining 70 or so names and randomly pick out 20 names, and then look at their five last fights.

The more random the selection the closer we MIGHT get to a truth. But who knows.

I think I am going to start spot checking for this while looking for other things. See if I can see a pattern or not.

Problem, I don't really know whom to call a journeyman. My knowledge doesn't go deep enough.

Worst, now that they put this term 'gatekeeper' in the mix, just about everyone I ever called a journeyman, isn't.

The secretaryship is yours, sir. You are the accountant.

[Eff Pandas]

I think all fighters have trouble retiring. Great fighters often had a youth filled with boxing so they aren't even equipped to do anything but boxing & entry level work so its gotta be a harsh reality they start to see as they get older. And lesser guys who might have a regular job probably see getting paid $10k for 30mins of work past your best days as an easy way to their kid a car or pay for their college.

I always say no one really retires they just haven't received the right offer yet & I tend to think thats true...esp in these days when we got Mike Tyson, James Toney, RJJ, Evander & Floyd STILL fighting to one degree or another.