Hopkins, like JONES, wasn't in his prime in 1993. Nevertheless, both were good enough to go without defeat for eons after meeting.
Roy Jones Jr.'s Legacy
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Prime Roy is top 2-3 middleweight of all time, just to fast, strong, unorthodox, for other middles...made a lot of mistaks, but no one could touch him. he was faster at middle than SRL was at welter.
People want to make excuses for Toney. Toney knew the date and the time of the fight..no excuses, he got his ass handed to him and lost almost every single round. Was not even close. Hopkins fought a one handed Roy Jones, fight was almost called off. Hopkins was green and so was Roy...So lets not make it like a vastly more professionally exprienced roy took advantange of Hopkins. roy beats hopkins 99 times out of 100 in their peak.Comment
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You know Reggie debuted in '84, right? You know Jones fought him in '99, right? You realize I never said Reggie wasn't an elite fighter in his prime, right? It's a good win for Jones, far from a great one. Perhaps the manner in which he beat Reggie was great, but the victory itself was not. Roy Jones, like Mike Tyson, blew fighters out of the water who weren't close to his level. It's just what they were good at. This does not translate to their ability to beat great fighters.
Wrong. What Roy does NOW (or maybe even a little after now) is that relevant. What Roy did in '04 however? Far from it. What Roy did in '04 is to be compared to what Ali did around '73 to '75. In '74 Ali beat Frazier and Foreman, in '04 Roy got KOed by Tarver and Johnson.
Now tell me, which guy seemed to be the greater fighter post-prime? Post-prime always matters. It's when the guy is completely shot (what Ali was against Berbick) is when it doesn't matter that he gets beat up.
If you look at roy for his first 15years, he is a top 15 all timer based on accomplishments. He beat 2 fighters who were not old and shot,but at their peak or enroute to it, rather easily. Some talk about all who toney had to fight, then that should have prepared him for Roy Correct. What happened inside the ring. No lets not whine about making weight. They are professional fighters, they both know the date and the time, it is a part of their profession to take care of their body so that they are primed for the fight.
Roy beat 22 champions 19 world champions, defended his title 13+ times between middle to light heavy. He was undefeated for 15years, and defended his light heavy title over 10 times beating number 1 challenger after number 1 challenger. He then moved up and beat a heavywieght champion clearly, not running but fought him and beat him. Then an only then did you see a decline after He had to rapidly lose muscle weight, and aged too.
Yes it is true that his lack of proper mechanis, how to hook and come back, jab, leaning back from the punch...etc.. All this impacted his ability after he lost his reflexes.. However if we judge fighters like chavez, duran, leonard, Ali up until physicially they are not the same, then lets do the same for Roy.
Finally what is stoppin hm from being top 5, is there are names out there he did not fight and should have. I make no excuses, he had every opportunty to fight DM, eubanks, Nunn, Collins. Outsideof Nunn at the time, who would have been favored to even compete with him? None of them. Yes you have to fight and beat them..I agree, but he beat damm near 20 world champions, and defended his light heavy title 13 times...maybe 12..Either way, he was the real deal. People say he had a glass jaw..Hmm where was this glass jaw the 1st 15 years of his career.Comment
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My facts are accurate. How many of those 19 world champions were lineal or ring magazine champions? Even C level fighters win alphabet soup titles sometimes.
Some fighters have 10+ lineal/ring champs on their resume.
I bring up Toney because it's the ONLY elite fighter Roy ever beat. Had he beat more, Toney's weight could be over looked. But the fact is he didn't. Toney was even advised by doctors not to fight. The one fight Roy had a chance to successfully prove how great his skills were was a fight that is tainted, fact.Last edited by Obama; 10-06-2009, 10:39 PM.Comment
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My facts are accurate. How many of those 19 world champions were lineal or ring magazine champions? Even C level fighters win alphabet soup titles sometimes.
Some fighters have 10+ lineal/ring champs on their resume.
I bring up Toney because it's the ONLY elite fighter Roy ever beat. Had he beat more, Toney's weight could be over looked. But the fact is he didn't. Toney was even advised by doctors not to fight. The one fight Roy had a chance to successfully prove how great his skills were was a fight that is tainted, fact.
Roy probably would/couild beat any middlweight that ever lived. That is a big statement but think about it he simply was too big and stong for Robinsonl, and he simply would clown all these other middles.Comment
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I will agree that Roy had some horrible challenges. I often argued this. However, he did beat 19 world champions, and did unify the title at Light heavy, was clearly the best in the world for 10 years. When he faced Hopkins Roy was told not to fight, but he did not want to cancel the fight, and beat hopkinis with out a right hand, pretty much having to slap it. AS for Toney, you cant bring up excuses. Every fighter has an excuse when they lose. Have you ever seen a good fighter lose with out a excuse. Toney would not be roy on his best day. Styles make fights. Remember toney was losing to another speedster Michael nunn before he caught up to him, but Toney did not look good in that fight either.
Roy probably would/couild beat any middlweight that ever lived. That is a big statement but think about it he simply was too big and stong for Robinsonl, and he simply would clown all these other middles.Comment
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My facts are accurate. How many of those 19 world champions were lineal or ring magazine champions? Even C level fighters win alphabet soup titles sometimes.
Some fighters have 10+ lineal/ring champs on their resume.
I bring up Toney because it's the ONLY elite fighter Roy ever beat. Had he beat more, Toney's weight could be over looked. But the fact is he didn't. Toney was even advised by doctors not to fight. The one fight Roy had a chance to successfully prove how great his skills were was a fight that is tainted, fact.Comment
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I think most of us can agree that every time an elite fighter loses people have to make up an excuse for it.
The Toney weight issue and the Hopkins not in his prime claims are ridiculous. You can twist any record you want around to make it seem good or bad.
For example, you can say Ray Robinson's victories over LaMotta were not a good because LaMotta was known for ballooning up after fights. Or Muhammad Ali's victory over Floyd Patterson is not a good one because Patterson wasn't in his prime.
The point is these are bogus. You can twist anyone's good wins around to make it seem bad.Comment
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Roy would stand no chance against Matthew Saad Muhammad.He would have no weapon against him. Saad LOVED a good, bloody brawl and could take punishment as well as anybody ever did. But Saad's power would be too much for Roy. Even if he outboxed him for 11 rounds, he'd get stopped in the 12th.
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Roy would stand no chance against Matthew Saad Muhammad.He would have no weapon against him. Saad LOVED a good, bloody brawl and could take punishment as well as anybody ever did. But Saad's power would be too much for Roy. Even if he outboxed him for 11 rounds, he'd get stopped in the 12th.
I agree that Saad's power would be too much. However peak roy, IMO would simply not be touched by Muhammad. He was so damme fast, and awkard. However your dead right, if the power lands, or Roy is stationary, then Muhammad wins.Comment
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