How Many Fighters Retired Undefeated?..

[Obama]

I don't think the Spinks fight should be brought up in any context though to be honest. Robinson may not have been the champ when he lost all those fights in his 40's but he was probably in better shape and atleast wasn't slurring every other word like Ali was at the time.

You'd surely agree that Ali shouldn't have even been the champ at that point in his career, right?

Young beat him, Norton beat him, but Earnie Shavers lost. Earnie Shavers wasn't exactly a bum. I can't say the same about Leon Spinks.

Robinson was clearly more over the hill when he was fighting Mick Leahy and beyond than Ali was in the Spinks fights. This whole speech thing isn't the definitive statement to what a fighter can do in the ring. I know plenty of guys that can't talk worth a **** but kick ass.

[TheGreatA]

Young beat him, Norton beat him, but Earnie Shavers lost. Earnie Shavers wasn't exactly a bum. I can't say the same about Leon Spinks.

Robinson was clearly more over the hill when he was fighting Mick Leahy and beyond than Ali was in the Spinks fights. This whole speech thing isn't the definitive statement to what a fighter can do in the ring. I know plenty of guys that can't talk worth a **** but kick ass.

I thought Robinson won the Pender fights, beat Fullmer the third time, lost the fourth, went 1-1 with Moyer, won a disputed SD against the competent Ralph Dupas, was competitive against Terry Downes and Joey Giardello, knocked down Leahy in losing, was badly robbed against Ayon and then lost to some other mediocrities before finally losing to Joey Archer.





Shavers was no bum but the fight wasn't exactly a clear win for Ali in my opinion. Ali took quite a pounding from possibly the hardest hitter of all time. After the Shavers fight, Ferdie Pacheco tried to convince Ali to retire because his health was badly declining. Pacheco refused to work with Ali again when Ali decided to continue fighting.

The thing is that Ali could hardly "kick ass" at that point, he wasn't half the fighter he used to be. Spinks wasn't even that bad but he had no business beating Muhammad Ali. He only beat the shadow of Ali, much like all the men who beat Robinson late in his career only beat the shadow of him.

[Obama]

I thought Robinson won the Pender fights, beat Fullmer the third time, lost the fourth, went 1-1 with Moyer, won a disputed SD against the competent Ralph Dupas, was competitive against Terry Downes and Joey Giardello, knocked down Leahy in losing, was badly robbed against Ayon and then lost to some other mediocrities before finally losing to Joey Archer.

One problem. Pender, Fullmer, Moyer, Dupas, Downes, and Giardello were all better than Spinks. Some of them a HELL of a lot better. Yet Robinson could beat them/be competitive in his sorry state.

Fact is Spinks wasn't supposed to win, regardless of how much Ali slipped. Everyone knew he had slipped before the contract got signed. There were no delusions by the public.

While it's true Ali wouldn't have lost to Spinks in his prime, it's not true that Spinks wouldn't of had his moments. Ali made a legacy off impressing against large, slow, heavy hitters. Guys like Spinks were always opponents he seemed to have problems with.

[TheGreatA]

One problem. Pender, Fullmer, Moyer, Dupas, Downes, and Giardello were all better than Spinks. Some of them a HELL of a lot better. Yet Robinson could beat them/be competitive in his sorry state.

Fact is Spinks wasn't supposed to win, regardless of how much Ali slipped. Everyone knew he had slipped before the contract got signed. There were no delusions by the public.

While it's true Ali wouldn't have lost to Spinks in his prime, it's not true that Spinks wouldn't of had his moments. Ali made a legacy off impressing against large, slow, heavy hitters. Guys like Spinks were always opponents he seemed to have problems with.

Robinson also lost to numerous lesser fighters around that time though who were probably less accomplished than Spinks. He was still competitive with the likes of Giardello, Downes, Moyer but he also lost to Leahy, Harrington, Hernandez...

Spinks was not exactly fast nor skilled. He beat Ali in my opinion because Ali expected him to tire but Spinks did not. He was a very well-conditioned and tough fighter, nothing that would trouble a prime Ali however.

[Princemanspopa]

Greater LHW. Not greater p4p. Get your bull**** straight, pooperscooper.

No he wasn't dunce,and it isn't debatable either.Obviously you like to think of yourself as a critic of Roy Jones Jr and his career,it makes you feel like a real true boxing fan to overrate unknown past fighters and underrate current well known fighters,compare Roy Jones's resume with Harold Johnson without having your nose up the worn out jockstraps of some old philadelphian fighter.


Roy Jones is the greater LHW,greater fighter and in truth would completely clown Harold Johnson.

You should try growing up a little dunce and stop using pathetic playground insults over other posters usernames

[mickey malone]

He retired after the second Spinks fight. He wasn't Champion when he came out of retirement for Holmes. He was further along then than before. Not to mention Holmes is a top 10 ATG Heavyweight, many would say top 5. Ali was SUPPOSED to lose to him at that point. I never said Ali was prime when Spinks beat him. But he was clearly competing with the best in the world at that time, and Spinks was far from the best in the world. Which is why Ali was HEAVILY FAVORED to beat Spinks in the first fight. He was NOT SUPPOSED to lose. Yet he did. If it wasn't such a terrible upset he wouldn't have been able to correct it in the rematch.

Ali was simply known to struggle with small Heavyweights.

And who said I based his legacy off it? I said it's one of the many indications he's not THE greatest, I never said he wasn't one of the greatest. Don't assume.



Greater LHW. Not greater p4p. Get your bull**** straight, pooperscooper.



C. O. N. T. E. X. T.

Everyone knows that he should never have fought Larry Holmes and whoever sanctioned the Berbick fight, should have been frog marched down a dark alley and & hung from a lamp post..

You have to remember that even a decrepit Ali was able to claim a new world record, by becoming the first 3 time champion..