Is Manny Pacquiao an all-time great?

[Obama]

i guess my sarcasm didnt come across. floyd is not a heavy puncher, so why try to discredit pacquiao's ko of hatton by saying floyd cracked his chin. A undefeated prime hatton would have been in the same situation as the 1 loss hatton if he got hit with that punch or anybody 140 or bleow. Now we are cracking chins of fighters when they are "hurt"? You are trying really hard to discredit pacquiao's accomplishment to make yourself feel better about floyd.

The fact that a former flyweight champion, career featherweight, non american, barely speaking english, is being more celebrated than your slick black american fighter floyd has got you peeved to say the least.

Sigh, stop pretending you know who I am. None of that is true. I point out the weaknesses in all fighters resumes. I don't dislike Manny at all. And guess which 2 fighters I like the least of all time? Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard. You don't even know if I like Floyd. Floyd just happens to be at that stage where everyone hates him (much like Ali in his prime) and I don't need to criticize the man because everyone else is already doing it.

Anyways, back to Pac, Mayweather cracked his chin by hitting him with straight right hands over , and over, and over again. CLEAN punches which Hatton absorbed 150% (He walked into them).

And for the record, I'm not saying a prime Hatton beats Manny. But he does do better.

[them_apples]

Sigh, stop pretending you know who I am. None of that is true. I point out the weaknesses in all fighters resumes. I don't dislike Manny at all. And guess which 2 fighters I like the least of all time? Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard. You don't even know if I like Floyd. Floyd just happens to be at that stage where everyone hates him (much like Ali in his prime) and I don't need to criticize the man because everyone else is already doing it.

Anyways, back to Pac, Mayweather cracked his chin by hitting him with straight right hands over , and over, and over again. CLEAN punches which Hatton absorbed 150% (He walked into them).

And for the record, I'm not saying a prime Hatton beats Manny. But he does do better.

I agree Hatton would do better at his best, but Pac still would have stopped him sooner than 10, or at least dominated him brutally. Pacquiao hadn't even warmed up yet and he was smashing Hattons face in.

People always talk about Pacquiao like he's just some sloppy fool who's easy to hit and just throws a lot and has speed. There is a hell of a lot more to it then that, and thats why he's the p4p king. Just about everyone he has fought recently has marveled at how difficult he is to time and the angles he attacks you from. If he and floyd fought I doubt it would be a simple counter that Mayweather has done to stationary fighters in the past. On paper Pacquiao has more weapons to deal damage to Floyd than vice versa.

People pull the same crap with Roberto Duran. Talk about him like he's some dumbass brawler with no skill.

[Obama]

Just about everyone save Marquez. His trick? He waited for Pac to come to him. Pac becomes a lot more ordinary if you fight him going backwards. Floyd just so happens to be the best in the world at doing that.

[chinoy]

PBF fought a LOT smaller and an older JMM and he cant be accused of cherrypicking?

you equate being "slick" as being black....

jesus christ.....talk about biases...

I wish you wouldn't write comments inside of a quote, I can't quote it and it makes it hard for me to see what you said. Anyways I will attempt to address the issues in the order you brought them up in.

The issue is not so much that Pac didn't fight Campbell or Casa in his first LW fight (although Marquez did, and Guzman was scheduled to in their first LW bouts). The issue is that Pac fought David Diaz instead, which was nothing more than cherry picking a soup title. Cherry picking a soup title from a guy who didn't even deserve to wear the title, whilst having NO other intentions of fighting anyone else in the division is unacceptable. Mayweather cannot be accused of this. So you need to clarify exactly what I'm giving Floyd a pass on. It's clearly not the same situation. Not to mention Floyd's first LW title fight was against the #1 LW in the world....close the book on this chapter.

Who faced better fighters in the SBW division, Pac or Guzman, is not relevant. What's relevant is that Pac wasn't fighting the best of the division, as the best was clearly Guzman. They were both Champions. Guzman was and still is undefeated. Guzman KOed a guy Pac couldn't beat. It's a no brainer that the fight should have been made. And the only thing superior about Pac's SBW resume is the fact that he was more active. Guzman just isn't a very active fighter. Being a highly active is not required for having an elite status, or making you worth fighting.

About Hatton, I'm not debating that he was Ring Champion. Clearly he was. I'm telling you the man was past his prime. Floyd ruined him. It's evident in the Lazcano fight. Beating feather fisted Paulie who decided to stop fighting after the first round (which he easily won) is not grounds for proving your still the best of the division. He cherry picked Paulie, who was on a string of ****ty performances, getting at least 2 gift decisions from N'dou and Ngoudjo. You can't compare the Paulie that fought Diaz to the one that fought N'dou, Ngoudjo, and Hatton. At this point Bradley was clearly better than Hatton. There's at least 5 JWWs I pick to beat Hatton now, not including JMM, who's highly interested in fighting him now.

Now for what I could ACTUALLY quote from you...

It's a damn shame he didn't fight Casa. He was interested in the fight. Had Casa not been robbed by Popo it prolly would have been made. Popo didn't move up to Lightweight until Floyd left. And Johnston wasn't fought because he couldn't avenge his loss to Castillo. Johnston never won a high profile fight again.

I don't see this double standard you're talking about here. I never claimed Floyd fought all of the best. I don't think it's OK regardless of excuses, and I'm glad he's going to correct that now. I also didn't claim Pac avoided fighting the best...I merely said he avoided fighting his most difficult opponents. Floyd didn't. There's no double standard there, you can't compare apples to oranges.

Ex) Emanuel Augustus was much more difficult than Diego Corrales. Was Augustus REMOTELY close to being as great as Corrales? Hellllllll no. But Floyd fought him.

Why did I bring any of this up in the first place? Since we're drifting here I'll just remind you because this seriously needs to end. I brought it up because Pac's overall performance against his competition is deceptive. The 3 times he got tested in his relevant career he lost a UD, drew, and won a SD. And the draw and SD could have easily been UD losses. Based off his fighting style, I'd bet any amount of money a slick counter puncher would also give him absolute hell.

And that's the bottom line.

And by the way, thanks for this argument, you got me turned red by the Pac Hugger squad.

Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:54 AM LOLAGE! PWNAGE! i disapprove!
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:53 AM joartccjr. EDUCATE YOURSELF.
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:52 AM MR. SMILEY PAC HATER
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:49 AM Domayn pac is atg
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:47 AM PACHUGGER PAC IS GOD



If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Don't reverse your problems then project them onto me. I'm not the opposite of you. You merely lack the mental capacity to understand me. And if you haven't noticed, Jab doesn't share your opinions of me so direct your childish responses to people who are as sad as you are. Instead you leave Jab in an uncomfortable position where he ends up not responding to you.

[Obama]

PBF fought a LOT smaller and an older JMM and he cant be accused of cherrypicking?

Can't be accused of fighting a joke LW Champion when he entered the weight class is what was said.

you equate being "slick" as being black....

No? I've already clarified this multiple times. Read more posts.

[Stoppage]

Can't be accused of fighting a joke LW Champion when he entered the weight class is what was said.

What sounds better:

Having your first fight in the lightweight division against a world champion or return as a natural welterweight and making a fight with a lightweight.

I don't understand your hate on Pacquiao.

And your 'Mayweather cracked Hatton's chinned' claim is still bogus. So what if he got hurt against Collazo? Plenty of fighters get hurt. You're just looking for anything you can grasp to put shame on Pacquiao's victories.

[Spear]

What sounds better:

Having your first fight in the lightweight division against a world champion or return as a natural welterweight and making a fight with a lightweight.

I don't understand your hate on Pacquiao.

And your 'Mayweather cracked Hatton's chinned' claim is still bogus. So what if he got hurt against Collazo? Plenty of fighters get hurt. You're just looking for anything you can grasp to put shame on Pacquiao's victories.

that bogus claim of "cracked chin by floyd" is as bogus as the president he named his screen name after claim to change.

He acts as if every single ATG fought undefeated fighters who were never hurt or got ko'd. cracked chin? what a ****** shameless way to try & discredit a beautiful knockout.

[Obama]

You guys have no business in the boxing history section. You've done nothing but try to misrepresent the information I've given. And you've even shamelessly gotten racist and resorted to ad hominem attacks.

[crold1]

If Mayweather gets credit for cracking Hattons' chin...doesn't Pac get cerdit for adding significant miles to JMM's odomoeter before he agreed to be a well paid, chubby tune up with no hope of winning against Floyd? What about the battles with MAB, Casa, and Diaz?

Marquez was far more inhibited by the past than Hatton who was coming off his best performance since Tszyu.

[Stoppage]

You guys have no business in the boxing history section. You've done nothing but try to misrepresent the information I've given. And you've even shamelessly gotten racist and resorted to ad hominem attacks.

Maybe it's because you're trying to personally discredit a fighter's best wins with a fighter that you think of more highly.