Is Manny Pacquiao an all-time great?

[mathed]

I posted this here because this is the section with the wisest posters and I'm looking to get your opinions on this.

In my opinion, yes.

Manny Pacquiao is still fighting today but I think he's justified his claim as an all-time great fighter. Why? It's simple.

He's been a champion in six different weight classes which is an amazing achievement.

He's defeated the best in the world. This includes:

Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez (while debatable, still a victory)
Oscar de la Hoya
Ricky Hatton

He has a match coming up against Miguel Cotto. If he beats him and claims another championship in a seventh weight class, then it just gives more reason to consider him an all-time great.

But the great thing about him is that he's brought the fights the fans want to see. He fights the best and gives it his all. That is something rare these days.

What are your opinions? Do you consider him an all-time great and why?

No, an all-time hypejob; he would get schooled by any legit lightweight, much less a welter, ha!!!

[Stoppage]

Mayweather isn't a big puncher, but Hatton was taking waaaaay too many straight right hands from Floyd. It wore him down and eventually Floyd got him out of there.

I'm not basing it on the Pac fight. Pac can crack, but Hatton's chin was pre-cracked. As I listed before it showed up in the Lazcano fight. Lazcano had no business making Hatton go jello legged. The man basically came out of retirement for that fight and was moving up in weight.

As for Floyd vs Hatton, pressure fighters are known to give slick fighters a good fight while it lasts, and earn a pretty close decision with them provided they don't take too many clean shots during the fight.

I guess we just differ in opinions. But at least we're on the same page that he's an all-time great.

[hugh grant]

Again he is an ATG because he is doing what he is said he cant do. Like beat DLH and Hatton.
All Pac fans know that if DLH or Hatton did beat Pac, youl would ram it down pacs fans throats and gloating about how bad Pac is.

So noone will hesitate to keep menioning how Pac dismantled DLH and Hatton until your sick and tired of it.

[them_apples]

And how credible is Mayweathers win over Hatton? at 140 who knows? without the extra muscle how well would Mayweather have done? Hatton previously looked terrible at 147.

[Obama]

And how credible is Mayweathers win over Hatton? at 140 who knows? without the extra muscle how well would Mayweather have done? Hatton previously looked terrible at 147.

2 reasons for that, 1 being he underestimated Collazo, and the other being Collazo was the second best fighter he ever faced at the time. And considering Tszyu was past it, no notable difference in ability between an old Tszyu and a prime Collazo. You may recall Hatton "dominating" Tszyu, but you can thank the ref and his motivation for that.

Ricky moved up to Welterweight because he was sick of making 140. This wasn't a case where the guy simply ran out of fighters to fight. The fact that he walked around at 180 was taking a toll.

[jrosales13]

I really don't like to throw out ATG status around. IMO fans throw that status to just about anybody nowadays. But, saying all that that IMO Pac is an ATG. He has done stuff in boxing that has never been done. And, there is over a 100yrs of boxing history. He has won 4 linear world championships in 4 different divisions, never been done. No Flyweight champ has ever won the JR WW championship. It seems like every fight he keeps making history. So yes IMO he is an ATG. However, as of right now I don't have him in my top 20 fighters of all time. I will have to see how he does against Cotto. But, from here on out his legacey is set ATG.

[Spear]

Manny is an ATG, but his selection of opponents pre-Cotto has been rather similar if I must say so. He seems to avoid slick fighters at all costs. I think he's taking Cotto only because Freddie figures Cotto is a spent force now.

You might as well say face black fighters. I remember reading a article on BS that pacquiao doesnt fight slick black fighters. Starting with lehnolo ledwaba & ending with jorge eliecer julio pacquiao fought 3 straight black guys.

In in between those 2 guys,

Agapito Sanchez. A slick dirty fighter. But you will probably comeback with the "but he aint american slick" argument.

The fact that he avoided Guzman for at least 4 weight divisions and chose David Diaz over Casamayor or Campbell says it all.

He's flat out avoided slick fighters. There is no denying it. Cotto is going to be a fight that puts him out of his element, I'm quite sure. People will write it off as due to the weight, but it's going to come down to styles.

You blast david diaz but this is the same david diaz that ktfo jose armando santa cruz who decisively beat "slick" joel casamayor but was robbed in new york. this is the same david diaz who beat another "slick black" fighter, a young & talented super fast southpaw named zab judah in the olympic trials.

Funny you also call hatton "washed up" or "cracked chin" after one loss to the heavy hitting floyd mayweather jr. Going by that logic i guess after tommy hearns "cracked" roberto duran's chin nobody would get credit for beating him afterwards. I guess we should discredit lennox lewis & evander holyfield because buster douglas "cracked" tyson''s chin.

[Obama]

You might as well say face black fighters. I remember reading a article on BS that pacquiao doesnt fight slick black fighters. Starting with lehnolo ledwaba & ending with jorge eliecer julio pacquiao fought 3 straight black guys.

No, I might not as well say Black fighters. Half the legitimate people Pac could have faced that were slick aren't even considered Black despite their dark skin color. If Willie Pep was around and Pac avoided him (and I believe he would have) he would be just as valid to name. This is not a race thing.

In in between those 2 guys,

Agapito Sanchez. A slick dirty fighter. But you will probably comeback with the "but he aint american slick" argument.

Not sure this does Pac any favors to consider this guy slick. Pac didn't beat the guy.... Thus this results in further reason why he avoids slick fighters.

You blast david diaz but this is the same david diaz that ktfo jose armando santa cruz who decisively beat "slick" joel casamayor but was robbed in new york. this is the same david diaz who beat another "slick black" fighter, a young & talented super fast southpaw named zab judah in the olympic trials.

Hold up, beating a guy that beat slick fighters doesn't count as beating a slick fighter yourself. You're missing the point. Styles make fights. I'm not arguing slick fighters > everyone, I'm arguing Pac's style is bad for them.

Funny you also call hatton "washed up" or "cracked chin" after one loss to the heavy hitting floyd mayweather jr. Going by that logic i guess after tommy hearns "cracked" roberto duran's chin nobody would get credit for beating him afterwards. I guess we should discredit lennox lewis & evander holyfield because buster douglas "cracked" tyson''s chin.

I gotta laugh at that...sorry.

Some people get brutally KOed and retain their chin, some don't. Hatton didn't. Come now would a semi-retired Lazcano really shake a prime Hatton to his boots?

[Spear]

No, I might not as well say Black fighters. Half the legitimate people Pac could have faced that were slick aren't even considered Black despite their dark skin color. If Willie Pep was around and Pac avoided him (and I believe he would have) he would be just as valid to name. This is not a race thing.



Not sure this does Pac any favors to consider this guy slick. Pac didn't beat the guy.... Thus this results in further reason why he avoids slick fighters.



Hold up, beating a guy that beat slick fighters doesn't count as beating a slick fighter yourself. You're missing the point. Styles make fights. I'm not arguing slick fighters > everyone, I'm arguing Pac's style is bad for them.



I gotta laugh at that...sorry.

Some people get brutally KOed and retain their chin, some don't. Hatton didn't. Come now would a semi-retired Lazcano really shake a prime Hatton to his boots?

i guess my sarcasm didnt come across. floyd is not a heavy puncher, so why try to discredit pacquiao's ko of hatton by saying floyd cracked his chin. A undefeated prime hatton would have been in the same situation as the 1 loss hatton if he got hit with that punch or anybody 140 or bleow. Now we are cracking chins of fighters when they are "hurt"? You are trying really hard to discredit pacquiao's accomplishment to make yourself feel better about floyd.

The fact that a former flyweight champion, career featherweight, non american, barely speaking english, is being more celebrated than your slick black american fighter floyd has got you peeved to say the least.

[them_apples]

2 reasons for that, 1 being he underestimated Collazo, and the other being Collazo was the second best fighter he ever faced at the time. And considering Tszyu was past it, no notable difference in ability between an old Tszyu and a prime Collazo. You may recall Hatton "dominating" Tszyu, but you can thank the ref and his motivation for that.

Ricky moved up to Welterweight because he was sick of making 140. This wasn't a case where the guy simply ran out of fighters to fight. The fact that he walked around at 180 was taking a toll.

He wasn't sick of making weight, you are just assuming that. He thought he could beat the p4p best at the time, and Floyd wasn't moving down. Hatton fought his last 3 fights at 140.

Hatton can't bully and push everyone around at 140 with strong guys like Cotto, Shane and Margarito in there.

Hatton walked around at 180 because he was fat, don't try to act like the guy is a natural WW or something, he was only 5'6 with a 65" reach, he didn't look any bigger than Pacquiao accept maybe in the waist.