Caesar's wife must be above su****ion.

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  • Willie Pep 229
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    #1

    Caesar's wife must be above su****ion.

    Caesar's wife was accused of adultery. She was found to be truely innocent and Ceasar himself believed her. Then he divorced her. Asked why, he answered the above.

    So how many HW Champions, when it comes to being accused of ducking can be said to be as pure as Caesar's wife? That is, never even accused.

    Who where the true fighting champions? (No ducks.)

    Sullivan: I believe he was; accusations about the color line pale (no pun intended) when mentioning Peter Jackson. Jackson hadn't battle his way into inevitably just yet.

    Corbett: Does suffers from not fighting Peter Jackson. The fight was viable and Jackson had, by Corbett, earned a shot at the title. This was a color line duck.

    Fitzsimmons: For a guy who fought damn near everybody, when HW Champion he was a disappointment. At the very least, a rematch with Corbett seemed proper. Otherwise he spent way too much time sitting on the title.

    Jeffries: There seems enough talk that Johnson was ready for him in 1905 so it looks like another color line miss.

    Burns: Fought everbody he could, so no ducks IMO.

    Johnson: While the issue is contentious as hell, at least around here, I'm going to say he paradoxically drew the color line, so it's another color line miss.

    Willard: It's difficult to assess. He ran into the war but was also always more interested in making side show $. More in the Fitzsimmons group. Maybe no ducks but not a fighting champ.

    Dempsey: Harry Wills!

    Tunney: Hard to judge when he retired so quickly but I think Sharkey had earned a shot. Is there such a thing as a 'retirement duck' if one stays retired?

    Schmeling: I see no ducks on his record.

    Sharkey: No ducks on his record.

    Carnera: No ducks on his record.

    Baer: No ducks on his record

    Granted with some of these guys there was no one to duck; can't call them fighting champions no one could hold onto the title long enough.

    Braddock: Has to be accused of ducking Schmeling.

    Louis: No ducks on his record with 25 (26) defenses. The definitive fighting champ. You got to believe that his people Blackburn/Jacobs really believed in him.

    Charles: No ducks I guess, just a bunch of Walcott fights. Can't say he was a fighting champion but you can't say he wasn't. Just too much Walcott.

    Walcott: Short reign but went right to the guy at the top, Marciano. So no ducks.

    Marciano: A fighting champion or do we say he ducked Valdez? (Remember Ceasar's wife must be above reproach.)

    Patterson: Almost called a ducker but he eventually stood up to Liston, so in the end a fighting champion with no ducks.

    Johansson: Who cares!

    Liston: No ducks! Maybe didn't fight often enough.

    Clay: Wanted to be a true fighting champion and at least as Clay he was. No ducks.

    Frazier: No ducks I can think of.

    Foreman I: No ducks.

    Ali: Looks like he ducked both the Foreman rematch and the Norton rematch that was pending between the Leon Spinks fights.

    Holmes: No ducks.

    Spinks:

    Tyson:

    Douglas: No ducks. Taking Holyfield was probably the right thing to do next.

    Holyfield:

    Bowe:

    Holyfield:


    Moorer: Could have given Holyfield a rematch and probably would have. We'll never know.

    Foreman II:

    Lewis:

    Klitschko:

    Fury:



    Last edited by Willie Pep 229; 04-17-2023, 09:20 PM.
  • QueensburyRules
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    #2
    Originally posted by Willie Pep 229
    Caesar's wife was accused of adultery. She was found to be truely innocent and Ceasar himself believed her. Then he divorced her. Asked why, he answered the above.

    So how many HW Champions, when it comes to being accused of ducking can be said to be as pure as Caesar's wife? That is, never even accused.

    Who where the true fighting champions? (No ducks.)

    Sullivan: I believe he was; accusations about the color line pale (no pun intended) when mentioning Peter Jackson. Jackson hadn't battle his way into inevitably just yet.

    Corbett: Does suffers from not fighting Peter Jackson. The fight was viable and Jackson had, by Corbett, earned a shot at the title. This was a color line duck.

    Fitzsimmons: For a guy who fought damn near everybody, when HW Champion he was a disappointment. At the very least, a rematch with Corbett seemed proper. Otherwise he spent way too much time sitting on the title.

    Jeffries: There seems enough talk that Johnson was ready for him in 1905 so it looks like another color line miss.

    Burns: Fought everbody he could, so no ducks IMO.

    Johnson: While the issue is contentious as hell, at least around here, I'm going to say he paradoxically drew the color line, so it's another color line miss.

    Willard: It's difficult to assess. He ran into the war but was also always more interested in making side show $. More in the Fitzsimmons group. Maybe no ducks but not a fighting champ.

    Dempsey: Harry Wills!

    Tunney: Hard to judge when he retired so quickly but I think Sharkey had earned a shot. Is there such a thing as a 'retirement duck' if one stays retired?

    Schmeling: I see no ducks on his record.

    Sharkey: No ducks on his record.

    Carnera: No ducks on his record.

    Baer: No ducks on his record

    Granted with some of these guys there was no one to duck; can't call them fighting champions no one could hold onto the title long enough.

    Braddock: Has to be accused of ducking Schmeling.

    Louis: No ducks on his record with 25 (26) defenses. The definitive fighting champ. You got to believe that his people Blackburn/Jacobs really believed in him.

    Charles: No ducks I guess, just a bunch of Walcott fights. Can't say he was a fighting champion but you can't say he wasn't. Just too much Walcott.

    Walcott: Short reign but went right to the guy at the top, Marciano. So no ducks.

    Marciano: A fighting champion or do we say he ducked Valdez? (Remember Ceasar's wife must be above reproach.)

    Patterson: Almost called a ducker but he eventually stood up to Liston, so in the end a fighting champion with no ducks.

    Johansson: Who cares!

    Liston: No ducks! Maybe didn't fight often enough.

    Clay: Wanted to be a true fighting champion and at least as Clay he was. No ducks.

    Frazier: No ducks I can think of.

    Foreman I: No ducks.

    Ali: Looks like he ducked both the Foreman rematch and the Norton rematch that was pending between the Leon Spinks fights.

    Holmes: No ducks.

    Spinks:

    Tyson:

    Douglas: No ducks. Taking Holyfield was probably the right thing to do next.

    Holyfield:

    Bowe:

    Holyfield:


    Moorer: Could have given Holyfield a rematch and probably would have. We'll never know.

    Foreman II:

    Lewis:

    Klitschko:

    Furry: More than little Fuzzy. WuzzyHe...


    - - Correction gratis...

    Fitz after having to hire guns to face down Corbett's gun support Wyatt Earp could make easier money acting in plays where the people flocked to see him as they did Sully and Corbett. Beats having being perforated by six shooters.

    Gotta keep things in context. JJohnson was a French Theater star, Willard had his own Wild West show, Dempsey went Hollywood after multi failures of Wills. When boxing became legal in every US state is when US boxers entered into fabled eras.

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    • ShoulderRoll
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      #3
      Jack Johnson fought and beat Langford, Jeannette, and McVey. In no way should be be lumped in with others who completely ducked black fighters.

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      • QueensburyRules
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        #4
        Originally posted by ShoulderRoll
        Jack Johnson fought and beat Langford, Jeannette, and McVey. In no way should be be lumped in with others who completely ducked black fighters.
        - - Should you be lumped in with regular lumps or ducking lumps?

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        • Willie Pep 229
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          #5
          Originally posted by ShoulderRoll
          Jack Johnson fought and beat Langford, Jeannette, and McVey. In no way should be be lumped in with others who completely ducked black fighters.
          I was only thinking about championship reigns.

          What a fighter does before he holds the crown is his own business when he claims a title his actions then affect others trying to climb to the top.

          So in my theory a pre champion fighter can't actually duck anyone. His route to the title is his to choose (pre scantioning bodies) so I only judged their behavior after they won the title.

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          • ShoulderRoll
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            #6
            I would argue that you should judge over an entire career. If a fighter ducked certain fighters their entire time in the sport? That is quite egregious.

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            • Willie Pep 229
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              #7
              Originally posted by ShoulderRoll
              I would argue that you should judge over an entire career. If a fighter ducked certain fighters their entire time in the sport? That is quite egregious.
              OK I would not.

              When a man claims a title he then and only then has an obligation.

              What JJ did as CHAMPION is what counts when it come to ducking. Not what he did to get his title shot.

              The title comes with responsibilities.

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