Thoughts On This Top 20 Heavyweight List

[JAB5239]

You can't necessarily compare the first 4 rounds of a 12 round fight to what they would be if the fight was scheduled for only 4 rounds.

If a fighter doesn't have time to figure out his opponent, there is no difference.

And once again you're treating every fight Dempsey had with Meehan as an inexperienced version of Dempsey. The best win Dempsey ever had was against Fred Fulton (would be Jack Sharkey if Dempsey didn't get his ass beat from beginning to end then cheat to win). He KOed Fulton in 1 round. His last loss to Meehan came AFTER he defeated Fulton. I really don't want to hear this inexperience crap anymore.

In comparison to Meehan, Dempsey was inexperienced, especially considering he had no amateur career. If he went on to beat better fighters than Meehan, it is only reasonable to make the assumption that he could most likely beat Meehan over a longer fight. Not a fact, but reasonable. Also, none of this detracts from everything else he did anyway, and that was my whole point of challenging your post, you dismissing him because of some 4 round fights to Meehan.

[Obama]

In comparison to Meehan, Dempsey was inexperienced, especially considering he had no amateur career. If he went on to beat better fighters than Meehan, it is only reasonable to make the assumption that he could most likely beat Meehan over a longer fight. Not a fact, but reasonable. Also, none of this detracts from everything else he did anyway, and that was my whole point of challenging your post, you dismissing him because of some 4 round fights to Meehan.

And Rocky Marciano was inexperienced compared to Joe Louis. Big deal. The fact is both Marciano and Dempsey had enough experience to get the job done.

Dempsey had enough experience knocking world class opponents out in 4 rounds. He didn't have enough time to adjust? Not the case. He wins a longer fight for a different reason. He wins a longer fight because Meehan would gas.

But as I said before, Dempsey was a specialist in early KOs. He had 5 chances against Meehan, failed each time. Why did he fail? Because Meehan was crafty and not some Middleweight who could be rolled over. Let me make 1 "leap of faith" and say a properly conditioned crafty fighter on Meehan's level could befuddle Dempsey for 10 rounds instead of 4.

[GameBullDawg]

Rocky needs to be in the top three. He has the best record of any heavyweight, retired undefeated in 49 fights with 43 ko's and fought everyone !

[Obama]

Rocky needs to be in the top three. He has the best record of any heavyweight, retired undefeated in 49 fights with 43 ko's and fought everyone !

Most of those guys he fought were bums. He only fought 8.5 years as I recall, in an era of past it great Heavyweights. By the time the young elite Heavyweights came around (Liston, Patterson, Folley, Machen) he already retired. To be rated a top 3 Heavyweight fairly he would have had to have at least beaten Liston and Patterson.

[mickey malone]

Most of those guys he fought were bums. He only fought 8.5 years as I recall, in an era of past it great Heavyweights. By the time the young elite Heavyweights came around (Liston, Patterson, Folley, Machen) he already retired. To be rated a top 3 Heavyweight fairly he would have had to have at least beaten Liston and Patterson.

Had Ali, Foreman, Lewis, Holmes, Holyfield, Vitaly, Wlad, Tyson and possibly Bowe, been around, I'd say he'd be somethig like 40-8-1.. Still respectable, but not immortal..

I'd give him a good chance against Frazier or Liston, & I'd say he'd win close fights against Tunney, Dempsey & Johnson..

It's not a size thing.. I'd also pick Marciano over Cooney, Bugner, Carnera, Willard, Tyrell, Shavers, Lyle, Douglas, Bruno, Williams & many more..

From his own era, I see only a PRIME Joe Louis, as capable of beating him...

[CCobra]

Had Ali, Foreman, Lewis, Holmes, Holyfield, Vitaly, Wlad, Tyson and possibly Bowe, been around, I'd say he'd be somethig like 40-8-1.. Still respectable, but not immortal..

I'd give him a good chance against Frazier or Liston, & I'd say he'd win close fights against Tunney, Dempsey & Johnson..

It's not a size thing.. I'd also pick Marciano over Cooney, Bugner, Carnera, Willard, Tyrell, Shavers, Lyle, Douglas, Bruno, Williams & many more..

From his own era, I see only a PRIME Joe Louis, as capable of beating him...

Marciano gets beaten by a prime Ezzard Charles. Charles came close to beating Rocky twice and the Heavyweight Charles that fought Marciano was past his prime and became a completely shot fighter post-Marciano I & II. Charles with more left in the tank would beat Rocky to a decision.

terrible list by a narrow minded old timer...jim jeffries was a bum would be annilated by every truly great.....holyfield is too low, lewis is not better than tyson, jack johnson is too high....

You rank a fighter based on what he accomplished in his own era. Jim Jeffries is an ATG Heavyweight fighter, top 10 material in some peoples eyes. I personally have him sitting between 15-20 and it may have been higher had he not shamefully retired so soon and took on the likes of Jack Johnson & Sam Langford when he were still a capable fighter.

[GJC]

Most of those guys he fought were bums. He only fought 8.5 years as I recall, in an era of past it great Heavyweights. By the time the young elite Heavyweights came around (Liston, Patterson, Folley, Machen) he already retired. To be rated a top 3 Heavyweight fairly he would have had to have at least beaten Liston and Patterson.

Liston I think would be a bad match up for Marciano. Though a chief part of Liston's armoury was that fighters were beaten before they got in the ring, Marciano wouldn't have been frightened. I would fancy him over Patterson and Johansson though so had Marciano had been say 25 not 29 when he won the title I could see him reigning until a 1959 Liston met him. That would push him up the rankings considerably.
All very theoretical of course.

[GJC]

Marciano gets beaten by a prime Ezzard Charles. Charles came close to beating Rocky twice and the Heavyweight Charles that fought Marciano was past his prime and became a completely shot fighter post-Marciano I & II.

He was shot because Marciano pretty much ruined him to be honest.

[Obama]

The early stages of Lou Gehrig's Disease ruined Charles.

[CCobra]

He was shot because Marciano pretty much ruined him to be honest.

The fight's took a lot out of him, but it was Lou Gehrig's disease that really ruined Charles. Not much is known on Charles really, most of what I know about his earlier life is what I attribute to an article in the Ring Magazine not long after he defeated the great Joe Louis.

The early stages of Lou Gehrig's Disease ruined Charles.

That's correct.