Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20-year intervals.

[Dr. Z]

Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20-year intervals. The criteria for the ranking are as follows.

1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter was passed their prime. 30%

3 ) The distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

4 ) Historians input, which matters most to fighters, not on film. 10%

I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings a bit, as this is the 1st draft. Some fighters might straddle between the eras.

If your have a specific question on a certain fighter, pm me.


1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize-ring rules to Queensberry rules.

1.Jeffries
2.Fitzsimmons
3A. Jackson - No film in the ring, only walking around.
3B. Corbett
5. Sullivan - Mock sparring and hitting a bag only
6. Sharkey
7. Slavin - No film
8. Ruhlin
9. Goddard - No film
10. Griffin - No film
11. Maher - Was flimed, never saw him
12. Choynski - filmed in sparring only
13. Hart - No film on
14. McCoy - Was filmed in the ring, spars with Corbett
15. O’Brien


1906-1925 Black and white filmed era:

1. Dempsey
2. Tunney
3a. J Johnson
3b. Langford
5. Wills
6. Jeanette
7. McVey
8. Willard
9. Greb - Training clips only
10. Gibbons
11. Burns
12. Miske - No film on, I think
13. McCarthy -No film on, I think
14 G. Smith
15. Norfolk

1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

1. Louis
2. Charles
3. Schmeling
4. M Baer
5. Carnera
6. Godfrey
7. J Sharkey
8. Bivins
9. Schaff
10. Conn
11. *****
12. Pastor
13. Farr
14. Loughran
15. Risko

1946-1965 Golden age era:

1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Patterson
4. Walcott
5. Charles
6. Johansson
7. Moore
8. Ray - No film on, only a radio broadcast
9. Terrell
10. Machen
11. Folley
12. Williams
13. H. Johnson
14. Valdes
15. D Jones



1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Witherspoon
7. Thomas
8. Quarry
9. Lyle
10. Coetze
11. Shavers
12. Cooney
13. Page
14. Young
15. Weaver


1986-2003: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth and a lot of talent.

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Tyson
4. Bowe
5. Ibeabuchi
6. Byrd
7. Moorer
8. Mercer
9. Douglas
10. Tua
11. Morrison
12. Bruno
13. Rhaman
14. Ruiz
15. McCall




2004-2024 – Eastern European dominance era. While this era is only half over, the nations producing the top talent have shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell, both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 3 Americans made the top ten. Since many of the below fighters career’s are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different after when 2024 once the era closes. Hopefully, we will all be here to debate it!

1A. V Klitschko
1B. W Kltischko
3. Povetkin
4. Usky * Still active
5. Fury* Still active
6. Chagaev
7. Sanders
8. Joshua * Still active
9. Wilder* Still active
10. Ibragimov
11. Haye
12. Adamek
13. Chambers
14. Brewster
15. Peter

Not rated yet. Joyce, Hrgovic, and Jarololv. Three " super heavyweights."
who, unless I miss my guess should rate and belong in the 2025-2040 time line. Maybe not Joyce. The game has shifted again. From here on in, every heavyweight will be greater the 6 feet 210+ pound with at least a 76 " reach. Well-- there may be one or two exceptions. We shall see.


*** I reserve the right to tinker with the rankings a bit ***


Dr Z.

[Bundana]

Of course it's always easy to nitpick, when presented with lists like these... but, overall, I think you have done a fine job.

If there's one thing, that caught my attention - it's the omission of Johnny Risko from the 1926-45 group! He beat 6 of the 15 men, that made your cut: Baer, Godfrey, Sharkey, Schaff, Loughran and Galento - and was in The Ring's top-10 5 years in a row, from 1926 to 30 (and again in 32). Personally, I think I would have found room for him.

[Dr. Z]

Of course it's always easy to nitpick, when presented with lists like these... but, overall, I think you have done a fine job.

If there's one thing, that caught my attention - it's the omission of Johnny Risko from the 1926-45 group! He beat 6 of the 15 men, that made your cut: Baer, Godfrey, Sharkey, Schaff, Loughran and Galento - and was in The Ring's top-10 5 years in a row, from 1926 to 30 (and again in 32). Personally, I think I would have found room for him.

Good point. The era was weak, and I forgot about him, But he lost a lot too. I can put him over say Galento.

[Willow The Wisp]

Its a good list. I congratulate your 'putting it out there'. Hoping others will too, and don't go low road with the potshots.
Your thoughts are as good as anybody else's.
Well....personally I appreciate Wilder quite allot more than many posters here do. And I appreciate Fury and Joshua and Usyk and Ruiz as well, and I appreciate their entire cast of supporting characters too. This would extend to Helenius, who is certainly a "B level heavyweight ", but only if you use the whole alphabet.
I've sat within 10 rows from the front row for many of the best heavyweights of the past half century, watching them train, befrening more than a few, and that doesn't make me either somone knowing it all or a know-it-all. What it DOES make me......is appreciative. Appreciative of their commitment, skills and rare gifts.
This is an absolutely GREAT era in heavyweight boxing. People might consider checking their cynicism a litte and enjoy whats happening right before their eyes - in THEIR lifetimes. Just spitballin' here.
It's easy for me to spot someone who is truly familiar with the workings of boxing and someone who knows the sport at arm's length. Not a criticism of anyone else who posts here, I promise. But there is an identifiable difference in how the sport is understood and perceived.
And no....Helenius did not throw the fight. Jeez. He got clipped hard by probably the hardest hitting human being ever born.
And, kids, JUST THAT is what the world media is reporting in droves today as the big story.
Weird theories and blaming the fight on it being Helenius' first day at the office is beneath us.
As for Wilder and his "B- Level opponents"???
What he did to Helenius he can do, and very likely will do to both Anthony Joshua and Oleksandr Usyk should he be given the chance to. Not so sure about that? Nobody is, including my own dammed self. But lets all Keep watching.its a great era.

[Dr. Z]

Thanks. You like this era better than I. The last 5 years to me have been no so great, but it's not the worst ever. I would not call the last five years great at all or the fighters in it.

On Wilder he has not fought many ring magazine raked contenders in their prime under the age of 35. As such his resume is very slim, and I can't rate him higher than he is now. What are his three best wins? See what I mean.

I'm open to ideas and might have forgot to list someone. The comment that Bundana made was spot on.

[Willow The Wisp]

Thanks. You like this era better than I. The last 5 years to me have been no so great, but it's not the worst ever. I would not call the last five years great at all or the fighters in it.

On Wilder he has not fought many ring magazine raked contenders in their prime under the age of 35. As such his resume is very slim, and I can't rate him higher than he is now. What are his three best wins? See what I mean.

I'm open to ideas and might have forgot to list someone. The comment that Bundana made was spot on.

Some of the Millennial bloggers from Boxing Scene, Boxing News 24/7 and the like write all kinds of whackadoo stuff about boxing and about Deontay Wilder, but many of them are knowledge lightweights with some time on their hands. Real boxing writers however, see both Wilder and his opponents in a more appreciative and contextual way. Not difficult spotting the difference in writing style.
Placing Wilder accurately in the ranking of his day isn't difficult either.
This is an updated metric I've composed and updated just for you. Unavoidably there is subjectivity (mine) embedded in the "Science" I'm employing here. For example I've assigned a rating to opponents of Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua, two of the five best of the "post Klitschko era".
I'm open to any criticism of the points that I've assigned to them.
You hear that "Joshua has fought better opposition" all the time, but its never the truth in my humble opinion. I like AJ just fine, an exceptional Heavyweight. 3rd or 4th best of his era (I'm wanting to see more of Usyk beyong Chazz, Chisora and Joshua at 200+). But the idea that he's had a " much better career" than Deontay Wilder is something of a MYTH I believe.
Apply some objective science, it trumps opinions and impressions any day of the week:

Here is the Data:
Points are awarded to the quality of an opponent at the time of their fight with the respective champions (Title Claimants).
On a scale of 1-10 (One is a terrible fighter/Ten Is Hall of fame-prime of career level Champion). I am counting individually only the opponents whom I rank as 4+. Career opponents deserved of a 1, 2 or 3 ranking I will credit en masse at the bottom. Wins will add points, and losses will conversely subtract them.

Let's begin:

Joshua's career Resume:

Matt Skelton, 28-8-0, Long faded former fringe contender, K-1 contender........+4 points

Kingpin Johnson, 29-6-1, Gate keeper, non-contender.......................+5 points

Gary Cornish, 21-0-0, Domestic prospect, non-contender...................+5 points

Dillian Whyte, 16-0-0, Prospect in development, would emerge later as a contender......+8 points

Charles Martin, 23-0-1, Prospect in development, fortunate to be a beltholder............+8 points

Dominic Breazeale, 17-0-0, Prospect in development, fringe contender.....................+6 points

Eric Molina, 25-3-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................+5 points

Wladamir Klitschko, 64-4-0, Ex-champion defeated by Fury, Retired, 41 years old.......+9 points

Carlos Takam, 35-3-1, Dangerious fringe contender........................................+ 7 points

Joseph Parker, 24-0-0, Top 5 contender, beltholder, would later disappoint........+9 points

Alexander Povetkin, 34-1-0, Longtime top contender. Slightly past prime at 39............+8 points

Andy Ruiz Jr., 32-1-0, Solid fringe contender ranked just outside top 10. .......9 points LOSS

Andy Ruiz Jr. II, 33-1-0, Fat, lathargic in the rematch......................+8 points

Kubrat Pulev, 28-1-0, Another Longtime top contender. Past prime at 39............+8 points

Oleksandr Usyk, 18-0-0, Cruiserweight unifier, untested at heavyweight...............9 points LOSS.

Oleksandr Usyk, 19-0-0, rematch, Joshua did better in the rematch.......................10 points. LOSS.


Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................90 Total Points


Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Joshua's other 11 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents............3

Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................96 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-8 points for Ruiz Jr I LOSS)
(-8 points for Usyk LOSS)
(-8 points for Usyk LOSS)
Sub-Total: -24 Points

96 - 24
Final Score minus losses: 72 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.










Wilder's career Resume

Kelvin Price, 13-0-0, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............+4 points

Audley Harrison, 31-6-0, Long faded former fringe contender, Olympian......+4 points

Malik Scott, 36-1-1, Fellow prospect, non-contender...............+5 points

Bermane Stivern I, 24-1-1, World ranked title holder in prime............+7 points

Eric Molina, 23-2-0, Gate keeper, non-contender............................+5 points

Johann Duhaupas, 32-2-0, Top 15 ranked fringe contender............+6 points

Artur Szpilka, 20-1-0, Lower regarded fringe contender, later disappointed........+5 points

Chris Arreola, 36-4-1, Longtime contender, still near prime..........+6 points

Gerald Washington, 18-0-1, Newly emerged contender.................+6 points

Bermane Stivern II, 25-2-1, World ranked former title holder............+6 points

Luis Ortiz I, 28-0-0, Top ranked world title contender....................+9 points

Tyson Fury I, 27-0-0, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification.....+10 points Draw

Dominic Breazeale, 20-1-0, Contemporary contender in 2nd title shot............+6 points

Luis Ortiz II, 31-1-0, Top ranked world title contender in rematch...................+8 points

Tyson Fury II, 29-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion, unification......10 points LOSS

Tyson Fury III, 30-0-1, Undefeated linial (actual) World Champion......10 points LOSS

Robert Helenius, 31-2-0, long time fringe contender, good power.........+7 points

Sub total – Quality of Opposition.................94 Total Points

Career building opponents:

Average ranking of Wilder's other 29 opponents.......................3 points

Bonus Points awarded for the sheer number of those early/lesser opponents...................5


Grand total – Quality of Opposition.................102 Total Points

Weighted value – Point deductions for losses (Opponent value x severity of loss/Informed subjective):

(-7 points for Fury II)
(-6 points for Fury III)
Sub-Total: -13 Points

102 - 13

Final Score minus losses: 89 Career Points for Quality of opposition value.



Conclusion:
Using an opponent value formula, Deontay Wilder's career opponents earn him 89 points, while Anthony Joshua's earn him only 72, with their respective weighted reductions for losing efforts. The oft-repeated narrative that claims that “Wilder has fought bums” and Joshua has "fought better contenders" is quantifiably inaccurate, using an all-inclusive formula like this. Applied weight of their respective losses see Wilder having steamed ahead. The reality of close examination is that while Josua's four best opponents may well be better (and by some margin, I concede) than Wilder's four best; Wilder has fought better opposition in total than Joshua has in the professional ranks; and has rendered better results against them; and any counter opinion is ...probably mostly commited-fan delusion, because the numbers don't lie.

If anyone can convincingly argue ANY of the merit values assigned to any of the fighters listed, I'm all ears about that. But if you can't do that, or choose not to; the question of Wilder vs. Joshua's total Quality of opposition has it's logically arrived at answer.
Anyway, all of this represents ONE way to compare their respective total work done, and a pretty fair way (though not the only way).
And of course, it isn't over yet for any of today's top Heavyweights. Not yet. That's the fun in following the fight game - the unfolding story.

Thanks for reading with an openand and inquisitive mind.

[Willow The Wisp]

....but this thread is about an era by era ranking format, not about Wilder alone; and I don't want to highjack it!

[QueensburyRules]

....but this thread is about an era by era ranking format, not about Wilder alone; and I don't want to highjack it!

- - It's about a cornball made up points system.

Blubber and Deyonce long time peers turn pro 2009.

AJ top of the heap with just 27 fights has unified and kept those unified titles intact for Usyk to enjoy turned pro 2013

Deyonce 27 fights in vs Matthew Greer widely derided for fighting scrubs fights in front of a half dozen entourage and a few boxing fans.

Blubber 27 fights in having been stripped of every belt with no defenses save Ring + a 6 month suspension fighting Pianeta while looking as weak as a kitten on skates.

Timelines don't lie, cornball points systems do lie.

Plus AJ purse totals greater than Blubber/Deyonce combined in much longer careers.

Yer welcome.

[Willow The Wisp]

Lol, YOU'RE a cornball made up points system.

[Willow The Wisp]

And I make title belts in my basement. Want one? 30 bucks.