Grouping Heavyweight Champs For Power

[The Old LefHook]

I selected four groups:


Excellent power

Good power

Medium power

Poor power

Let us say everyone can fit into these groups somewhere. Cut and paste the groups, fill in the answers.

I say Clay was a medium power guy. So my favorite fighter picked opponents apart with only medium power.

[Willie Pep 229]

I selected four groups:


Excellent power

Good power

Medium power

Poor power

Let us say everyone can fit into these groups somewhere. Cut and paste the groups, fill in the answers.

I say Clay was a medium power guy. So my favorite fighter picked opponents apart with only medium power.

Does anyone rise to HW Champion of the World with poor power?

The top guys are easy but I'm sure there will be disputes.

Excellent Power

Sullivan
Jeffries
Dempsey
Baer
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Foreman
Tyson
Lewis

[Ivich]

I selected four groups:


Excellent power

Good power

Medium power

Poor power

Let us say everyone can fit into these groups somewhere. Cut and paste the groups, fill in the answers.

I say Clay was a medium power guy. So my favorite fighter picked opponents apart with only medium power.

Excellent.
Sullivan
Fitzsimmons
Dempsey
Baer
Louis
Marciano
Johansson
Liston
Foreman
Tyson
Lewis
W Klitscko
Wilder

Good
Jeffries
Johnson
Willard
Schmeling
Walcott
Patterson
Joshua

Medium
Burns
Patterson
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield
Bowe

[Willie Pep 229]

Excellent.
Sullivan
Fitzsimmons
Dempsey
Baer
Louis
Marciano
Johansson
Liston
Foreman
Tyson
Lewis
W Klitscko
Wilder

Good
Jeffries
Johnson
Willard
Schmeling
Walcott
Patterson
Joshua

Medium
Burns
Patterson
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield
Bowe

Should we assume Sharkey, Carnera, Braddock, Tunney fall into the poor grouping?

P.S. Why Wilder and AJ? I thought this was just lineal. Maybe I am getting two different threads twisted.

[The Old LefHook]

Does anyone rise to HW Champion of the World with poor power?

The top guys are easy but I'm sure there will be disputes.

Excellent Power

Sullivan
Jeffries
Dempsey
Baer
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Foreman
Tyson
Lewis

Good question. Chris Byrd did not have much power. Strangely, mediocre would have been more accurate and acceptable.

[The Old LefHook]

Excellent.
Sullivan
Fitzsimmons
Dempsey
Baer
Louis
Marciano
Johansson
Liston
Foreman
Tyson
Lewis
W Klitscko
Wilder

Good
Jeffries
Johnson
Willard
Schmeling
Walcott
Patterson
Joshua

Medium
Burns
Patterson
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield
Bowe

(You placed Patterson in two categories. Which did you settle on? What about Corbett?)

Fitz, the lightest of the bunch at 165 lbs. is the biggest question mark for me. He won the heavyweight championship at that weight. It is hard to believe he punches harder than Joshua or Jefferies in foot pounds or Newtons. How is he supposed to do that? Maybe on some kind of relative scale he does, like "P4P," or, "for his era," but I cannot believe he does in foot pounds, though the man is built like Popeye. You get my meaning. Other legendary light heavyweights' punching power (like Foster's) did not transfer upward to heavyweight; Fitz is a super middleweight whose power is expected to transfer upward to heavyweight and put him in the same class of hard puncher as Tyson and Foreman. One could doubt on Physics alone. Physics is a powerful ally. It would be Fitz's best ally too if he really can punch that hard.

Since acceleration is one of only two factors that constitute force, I believe Fitz would have to be the fastest fighter who ever lived in order for his punches to reach the same category as Tyson and Foreman. Either that or he got more of his body weight into his punches than any man ever AND was fast as hell to boot. I might envision him with as much punching power as Walcott or Holmes, but I think even that is somewhat dubious. One of Foreman's arm punches might well be as hard as Fitz's best shot. I would like to hear your reasons and if you are using one of the relative scales or are you speaking in terms of absolute power? He said, she said is another way. But I like physics.

[Ivich]

(You placed Patterson in two categories. Which did you settle on? What about Corbett?)

Fitz, the lightest of the bunch at 165 lbs. is the biggest question mark for me. He won the heavyweight championship at that weight. It is hard to believe he punches harder than Joshua or Jefferies in foot pounds or Newtons. How is he supposed to do that? Maybe on some kind of relative scale he does, like "P4P," or, "for his era," but I cannot believe he does in foot pounds, though the man is built like Popeye. You get my meaning. Other legendary light heavyweights' punching power (like Foster's) did not transfer upward to heavyweight; Fitz is a super middleweight whose power is expected to transfer upward to heavyweight and put him in the same class of hard puncher as Tyson and Foreman. One could doubt on Physics alone. Physics is a powerful ally. It would be Fitz's best ally too if he really can punch that hard.

Since acceleration is one of only two factors that constitute force, I believe Fitz would have to be the fastest fighter who ever lived in order for his punches to reach the same category as Tyson and Foreman. Either that or he got more of his body weight into his punches than any man ever AND was fast as hell to boot. I might envision him with as much punching power as Walcott or Holmes, but I think even that is somewhat dubious. One of Foreman's arm punches might well be as hard as Fitz's best shot. I would like to hear your reasons and if you are using one of the relative scales or are you speaking in terms of absolute power? He said, she said is another way. But I like physics.

Patterson=Good.

Corbett=Poor
Fitz ko'd men significantly heavier many, many times and often with one shot.
I believe there are a few ,a very few men that defy the laws of physics and possess power their size indicates they should not have.
I put Fitz,Choynsky and Langford in this category.
Foster punched as hard as some heavyweights and ko'd some of the bottom feeders in that division.
I think he had harder one shot power than Moore.his problem was his ," Praying Mantis," physique was not designed to weather the punchers from men that much bigger.

[The Old LefHook]

Patterson=Good.

Corbett=Poor
Fitz ko'd men significantly heavier many, many times and often with one shot.
I believe there are a few ,a very few men that defy the laws of physics and possess power their size indicates they should not have.
I put Fitz,Choynsky and Langford in this category.
Foster punched as hard as some heavyweights and ko'd some of the bottom feeders in that division.
I think he had harder one shot power than Moore.his problem was his ," Praying Mantis," physique was not designed to weather the punchers from men that much bigger.

Well, Moore wasn't a heavyweight just because he chowdered on a bunch of weight to fight there.. Doesn't just about everyone figure Foster punched harder than Moore? I always have.

I am not trying to change your mind. You have your own reasons. But like I said, I will go with physics this time instead of "he said, she said." I don't find it odd at all that your three picks for size-defying power all come from an era immune to actual proof. Were there no truly size-defying punchers after that? If so, not to Fitz's degree, because he was even smaller than the other diminutive heavyweight kingpins. Even Marciano outweighed him by some 27 lbs at their greatest heavyweight disparity.

Which size gloves were Fitz and his contemporaries punching people with?

Knocking out admittedly heavyweight bottom feeders should not get any boxer into the same category of power as Tyson and Foreman.

I do not necessarily feel absolutely correct here, but I do feel secure in my position for this issue. And of course I accept that Fitz was a very hard puncher for his size, just not that he punches as hard as men a hundred pounds heavier. I can't see him throwing Frazier a foot through the air with a punch. The mental consideration of it is even a bit comical.

How would you feel about the proposition that Fitz anyway must have the least power of those you placed in the top category, other than the possibility of Sullivan?

[Dr. Z]

I selected four groups:


Excellent power

Good power

Medium power

Poor power

Let us say everyone can fit into these groups somewhere. Cut and paste the groups, fill in the answers.

I say Clay was a medium power guy. So my favorite fighter picked opponents apart with only medium power.

Should be a on a 1-10 scale to better define the fighters. I'd say Clay/Ali scores a 6.5 He could hit a better than average and has KO's over Liston, Frazier, and Foreman.

[Dr. Z]

Excellent.
Sullivan
Fitzsimmons
Dempsey
Baer
Louis
Marciano
Johansson
Liston
Foreman
Tyson
Lewis
W Klitscko
Wilder

Good
Jeffries
Johnson
Willard
Schmeling
Walcott
Patterson
Joshua

Medium
Burns
Patterson
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield
Bowe

So, you really think Johnson hits harder than Bowe? And Holyfield, Holmes, and Ali. Sure sure. And Willard

Are two different fighters named Patterson?