Your Top 5 At Middleweight?

[mrbig1]

Greb
Walker
Monzon
Hagler
Fullmer

I would have to agree with this list. How can SRR be on this list. He lost the title 4 times. He is the p4p all-time great but not as MW. Micky Walker is so underrated. Great fighter great champion. Peace.

[The Old LefHook]

Wilbur, I have answered dumbly before to be provocative myself. I know your page.

[The Old LefHook]

1 Robinson
2 Fitzsimmons
3 Monzon
4 Hagler
5 Greb

[The Old LefHook]

Yes, I agree. I recognize your point.

Not sure if this mitigates my point but . . . the topic at hand is 'great MWs' - SRR is 'old' for a good portion of the time he is a MW (including that premature retirement). His tenure at MW is filled with loses (and great comebacks) to various fighters, not just Fullmer.

Ar some level, if we judge SRR at MW, we are judging the "old" period of his career. Does that part of his career place him in the top MW five?

P.S. Hell who wants to argue against SRR? That's tough.

Robinson, born in 1921, fought Fullmer for the first time when he was 36 years old, he had already had 89 amateur fights and well over a hundred pro fights when he fought Gene. Robinson was well past it and would soon be beaten by the likes of Paul Pender and Joey Archer, two nothings.

Well, you got what you wanted kid. I am pretty sure that is why you published that post. You wanted someone to slap it down, didn't you?

[Willie Pep 229]

Robinson, born in 1921, fought Fullmer for the first time when he was 36 years old, he had already had 89 amateur fights and well over a hundred pro fights when he fought Gene. Robinson was well past it and would soon be beaten by the likes of Paul Pender and Joey Archer, two nothings.

Well, you got what you wanted kid. I am pretty sure that is why you published that post. You wanted someone to slap it down, didn't you?

Yes, and lost to him twice at an old age, and got his only win on a one punch save. He was old, too old for Fullmer, and for the names you mentioned above. So if the guy's MW career was dominated by fights when he was 'old' why are you putting him at the top of the MW list?

He isn't, at MW, the prefection he was at WW.

[Willie Pep 229]

Wilbur, I have answered dumbly before to be provocative myself. I know your page.

I believe "educated past my intelligence" is the go to Conservative platitude you are looking for.

P.S. Beware of my page, there may be a trojan horse - A month ago I got an offer for my .com domain name, it means "Hardware" in several SA countries. I refused and then my server got some complaints about my web page. Since then it's suppose to be OK, I think. -- I got several emails that came addressed to myself.

[The Old LefHook]

The Robinson who beat LaMotta would never to be able to beat Fullmer, I guess you are saying. You don't believe your own garbage, so quit pretending you do. In fact, he couldn't beat any of those guys you named, because they were on your list and he was not. Stop trying to be original just for originality's sake. We once had a churl named Tromboni around here. His opinions on Robinson were original too. Robinson was just an average fighter who padded his record with undersized men. Tromboni got the heave-ho. Everybody celebrated. Now he lurks around toilets in the park looking for a conversation. Don't join him.

[GhostofDempsey]

Robinson
LaMotta
Greb
Hagler
Langford — defeated Ketchel and Flowers, went distance with HW Johnson at only 156 pounds. Defeated Jeannette fighting at similar weight.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Boys, gotta start somewhere: IBRO 2019-

Robby #1 p4p but #2 at Middle. Curiously no consideration of Golovkin who was busy setting records. Distinct bias against Soviets.

1. Harry Greb (609)
2. Ray Robinson (575)
3. Carlos Monzon (527)
4. Marvin Hagler (493)
5. Mickey Walker (448)
6. Stanley Ketchel (446)
7. Bob Fitzsimmons (377)
8. Bernard Hopkins (256)
9. Charley Burley (251)
10. Marcel Cerdan (248)
11. Jake LaMotta (223)
12. Tony Zale (206)
13. Tiger Flowers (202)
14. Sam Langford (195)
15. Roy Jones Jr. (170)
16. **** Tiger (168)
17. Ezzard Charles (148)
18. Mike Gibbons (137)
19. Freddie Steele (131)
20. Tommy Ryan (108)

Top Vote Getters (50 or more points): Emile Griffith (86), Ray Leonard (81), Gene Fullmer (65), Kid McCoy (64), James Toney (50). Summary:  Greb has perhaps the greatest record of opponents in ring history, therefore it is no surprise he scored over 600 points in taking first place just as he did about 15 years ago. 20 voters had Greb in the top spot. 31 of 32 had him in the top 5.  A relatively close 2nd is the Sugar Man Ray Robinson with 575 points. He received 4 1st place votes, 11 2nd place votes, only 3 of 32 did not have Robinson in the top 5. Every voter had Robinson in the top 10 at 160

[Willie Pep 229]

The Robinson who beat LaMotta would never to be able to beat Fullmer, I guess you are saying. You don't believe your own garbage, so quit pretending you do. In fact, he couldn't beat any of those guys you named, because they were on your list and he was not. Stop trying to be original just for originality's sake. We once had a churl named Tromboni around here. His opinions on Robinson were original too. Robinson was just an average fighter who padded his record with undersized men. Tromboni got the heave-ho. Everybody celebrated. Now he lurks around toilets in the park looking for a conversation. Don't join him.

That is an unfair comparison. I would put SRR at the top of any welterweight list.

All I have asked . . . does his entire resume apply to being a top MW five.

Really just for discussion sake. I'm not trying to prove anything, or be 'provocative' --- just trying to force a little debate on the resume vs. H2H argument.

Why does anyone on this forum think it is necessary to judge another poster's right to an opinion.

Would a retraction actually matter to you or are you just pi-ssed about my political rant?