James Toney Dream Fights

[Dr. Z]

So, I’m a bit of a James Toney fan. But one thing I have to gripe about is that there were several world class middleweight and super middleweight boxers that he never ended up fighting. I’m assuming that the timing was just never right, but that’s besides the point. So, I wanna share a bunch of James Toney fantasy fight ideas. I wanna hear your opinions on each fight. How do you think it will go? Who do you think will win? But most of all, I want to know which one you would be most excited to see and why?

James Toney vs. Bernard Hopkins
James Toney vs. Chris Eubank
James Toney vs. Nigel Benn
James Toney vs. Gerald McClellan

All fights Toney could win or lose. I think Toney is over rated by his fans a bit, but they are fans of him and his personality. Best guess is he loses to Hopkins and a prime McClellan but beats Eubank and Benn. All fights go the distance.

[QueensburyRules]

- - Any fight going the distance with Two Ton against a rated fighter is more than not going to be a decision for him, not Two Ton.

Boozo vs Hammy Dan, and who you got?

[Hooded Terror]

But that's the point of contention, you're saying he was in "top shape" for those fights yet how was his shape any different to any other fights? If he didn't end up stopping Nunn in that late round then that fight would be used as an example of him "not being in shape or focused" based on the actual performance. Yet because he managed to pull out the KO it's then seen as the opposite which I don't understand.

The same for Johnson, if he got the L instead of the W the same excuse would be made there, yet it's not.

He looked no different in those 2 fights than he did vs Roy Jones? What difference is there? I don't see one. And that's the point I'm making.

I had Toney 1-1 with Griffin on my cards. Had him losing clearly to Thadzi.

Here's the thing about the Nunn match. Toney WAS in condition. He dogged a quicker, superior, more accomplished, more experienced boxer. He showed conditioning and resolve. And it worked. As for his knocking the gas out of Nunn's tank, he obviously did something that worked. How others see it, or couch it, doesn't change reality, or my being impressed by him. Nunn was a solid champion. How others need to cut it, theoretically, changes nothing. Assumptions. He was more fighter than boxer when he had to be.

And maybe the same for Johnson with these invisible double-edged-excuse-makers. Johnson was a very talented boxer, one that I feel merited a rematch with Toney. In fact, it should have been an immediate rematch. But the fact is Toney managed to get by him, despite the knockdown. Like Nunn (6 weeks earlier?) it took conditioning, strategy, and resolve. Johnson showed the same. I came away from that bout hungry for the rematch; wanting to see more of Johnson.

There is some dogged Joe Frazier in Toney. He's not gonna be flashly like Leonard, RJJ or Mayweather. His game is a sort of blend.

As for the RJJ match, Toney was in very good condition, but in my view he was thoroughly out-slicked and out-boxed chasing Roy; playing Roy's game. Johnson and Nunn did not zoom Toney in the exact same manner. I will also throw-in this assertion. Toney's poor between fight habits were not in his best interest to improve or polish heading into matches with sharp boxers of similar or superior talent and focus. I think Toney was pretty much as good as he could have been for Jones. And even if he could have come in a theoretical 10% better it still wouldn't have mattered. Jones would have still outfought him. Interestingly, some years later at 175, Jones waxed Johnson in much the same "different time zone" manner, to some extent, distancing himself from "their" level.

Like you I had Toney 1-1 with Griffin. Agreed on Thazdi. Then the mist for a few years then the low key return.

I'm not going to convert you or anybody really about JT and his wavey career. I've followed the sport since Thrilla. But in Toney I saw what I saw. A certain hunger, fire and bag of tricks. His limited amateur run seemed to make his rise through the ranks all the more compelling, to me. No matter how much I put him under the buffer, we won't see eye-to-eye on JT, and that's kool. But it is good to engage a very knowledgable fan, one with sharp, valid points..

[QueensburyRules]

Here's the thing about the Nunn match. Toney WAS in condition. He dogged a quicker, superior, more accomplished, more experienced boxer. He showed conditioning and resolve. And it worked. As for his knocking the gas out of Nunn's tank, he obviously did something that worked. How others see it, or couch it, doesn't change reality, or my being impressed by him. Nunn was a solid champion. How others need to cut it, theoretically, changes nothing. Assumptions. He was more fighter than boxer when he had to be.

And maybe the same for Johnson with these invisible double-edged-excuse-makers. Johnson was a very talented boxer, one that I feel merited a rematch with Toney. In fact, it should have been an immediate rematch. But the fact is Toney managed to get by him, despite the knockdown. Like Nunn (6 weeks earlier?) it took conditioning, strategy, and resolve. Johnson showed the same. I came away from that bout hungry for the rematch; wanting to see more of Johnson.

There is some dogged Joe Frazier in Toney. He's not gonna be flashly like Leonard, RJJ or Mayweather. His game is a sort of blend.

As for the RJJ match, Toney was in very good condition, but in my view he was thoroughly out-slicked and out-boxed chasing Roy; playing Roy's game. Johnson and Nunn did not zoom Toney in the exact same manner. I will also throw-in this assertion. Toney's poor between fight habits were not in his best interest to improve or polish heading into matches with sharp boxers of similar or superior talent and focus. I think Toney was pretty much as good as he could have been for Jones. And even if he could have come in a theoretical 10% better it still wouldn't have mattered. Jones would have still outfought him. Interestingly, some years later at 175, Jones waxed Johnson in much the same "different time zone" manner, to some extent, distancing himself from "their" level.

Like you I had Toney 1-1 with Griffin. Agreed on Thazdi. Then the mist for a few years then the low key return.

I'm not going to convert you or anybody really about JT and his wavey career. I've followed the sport since Thrilla. But in Toney I saw what I saw. A certain hunger, fire and bag of tricks. His limited amateur run seemed to make his rise through the ranks all the more compelling, to me. No matter how much I put him under the buffer, we won't see eye-to-eye on JT, and that's kool. But it is good to engage a very knowledgable fan, one with sharp, valid points..

- - We can't quantify with numbers, but Nunn was well into his ******* phase, not at his best.

[IronDanHamza]

Here's the thing about the Nunn match. Toney WAS in condition. He dogged a quicker, superior, more accomplished, more experienced boxer. He showed conditioning and resolve. And it worked. As for his knocking the gas out of Nunn's tank, he obviously did something that worked. How others see it, or couch it, doesn't change reality, or my being impressed by him. Nunn was a solid champion. How others need to cut it, theoretically, changes nothing. Assumptions. He was more fighter than boxer when he had to be.

And maybe the same for Johnson with these invisible double-edged-excuse-makers. Johnson was a very talented boxer, one that I feel merited a rematch with Toney. In fact, it should have been an immediate rematch. But the fact is Toney managed to get by him, despite the knockdown. Like Nunn (6 weeks earlier?) it took conditioning, strategy, and resolve. Johnson showed the same. I came away from that bout hungry for the rematch; wanting to see more of Johnson.

There is some dogged Joe Frazier in Toney. He's not gonna be flashly like Leonard, RJJ or Mayweather. His game is a sort of blend.

As for the RJJ match, Toney was in very good condition, but in my view he was thoroughly out-slicked and out-boxed chasing Roy; playing Roy's game. Johnson and Nunn did not zoom Toney in the exact same manner. I will also throw-in this assertion. Toney's poor between fight habits were not in his best interest to improve or polish heading into matches with sharp boxers of similar or superior talent and focus. I think Toney was pretty much as good as he could have been for Jones. And even if he could have come in a theoretical 10% better it still wouldn't have mattered. Jones would have still outfought him. Interestingly, some years later at 175, Jones waxed Johnson in much the same "different time zone" manner, to some extent, distancing himself from "their" level.

Like you I had Toney 1-1 with Griffin. Agreed on Thazdi. Then the mist for a few years then the low key return.

I'm not going to convert you or anybody really about JT and his wavey career. I've followed the sport since Thrilla. But in Toney I saw what I saw. A certain hunger, fire and bag of tricks. His limited amateur run seemed to make his rise through the ranks all the more compelling, to me. No matter how much I put him under the buffer, we won't see eye-to-eye on JT, and that's kool. But it is good to engage a very knowledgable fan, one with sharp, valid points..

I don’t disagree with much of what you say here mate. Lots of good points made.

I’d agree with you for sure he was in condition for Nunn, Johnson and Jones. As I’d say all 3 of those fights were the exact same Toney.

Where my issue arises (not with yourself) is when people act like Toney was somehow a totally different version of himself vs Roy Jones (and every other fight he looked bad in or lost) I don’t agree with that notion at all.

Agree with you on the immediate rematch with Johnson, should have happened. I had Johnson winning that fight (close), I felt Johnson totally dominated the first 5 rounds with the KD, then gave away the latter rounds messing around. Johnson was such a good, talented and skilful fighter, when he wanted to be…Which was his issue and stopped him from taking himself to the elite level from
world level. It seemed more mental with him than physical.

[Flickergrab98]

Looks like I’m not the only one who sees potential in a matchup against Eubank. Their styles could make for an interesting clash

[ShoulderRoll]

Speak Toney's name 1 time and it will summon forth the angry spirit of Iron Dan.

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[IronDanHamza]

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You're aware that this thread was on the FIRST PAGE on a public internet forum don't you, you fool?

Why don't you put your focus into answering the question you still haven't answered;

Is James Toney an ATG to you or not? Yes or no?

[Flickergrab98]

You're aware that this thread was on the FIRST PAGE on a public internet forum don't you, you fool?

Why don't you put your focus into answering the question you still haven't answered;

Is James Toney an ATG to you or not? Yes or no?

You realize your inability to take the joke in good grace only confirms that you have a hate boner for Toney, right? At least, that’s the perception you’re creating

[IronDanHamza]

You realize your inability to take the joke in good grace only confirms that you have a hate boner for Toney, right? At least, that’s the perception you’re creating

No, not really.

I find it childish and frankly embarrassing that on a boxing forum where the literal only purpose of the website is to discuss the topics on the board that whenever I post in a thread that's on the first page childish jokes are being made. What kind of child saves a picture on his computer and posts that? You find that amusing, do you?

It's simply a thinly veiled defense mechanism because those said people can't debate the topic at all. Bare in mind, if you take a simple check through my post history I barely even discuss topics on Toney.

You find that as something that's funny, I guess? I find it embarrassing. To each its own mate.