Tyson Fury & Jess Willard

[travestyny]

Maybe that raises the question as to whether or not fighters would have fought any differently knowing they only had 12 rounds to win? All hypothetical.

Absolutely. I did think of that. Would it have been any different had Willard went balls tot he wall from the beginning?

It's a good question, but I doubt the result would have been different over 12-15 rounds.

[Marchegiano]

Absolutely. I did think of that. Would it have been any different had Willard went balls tot he wall from the beginning?

It's a good question, but I doubt the result would have been different over 12-15 rounds.

I'm unclear by your meaning. Are you saying Willard would have won a 12 round fight by the beginning of the 7th or that Willard can't beat Johnson in a 12 round fight?

Boxrec has Willard claiming he's training to beat Johnson after the 15th. Like, he said that **** before the fight. So if Willard doesn't think he can beat Johnson in a 15 rounder that's pretty strong evidence to suggest a modern Willard Johnson favors Johnson, imo. That's if Boxrec even has their **** together.

The numbers are easy though,

15/45 = 4/12
26/45 = 7/12

A fighter taking off 4 and winning by KO in the 7th is normal as **** now. I can definitely see the appeal of the same outcome just sped up kind of theory, but, I think if Jess was so willing to take a beating for 15 rounds because he didn't see any other way to win a 45 rounder he probably just takes a beating in a 12 rounder. Just not enough time for Jack to be tired enough for Jess to turn on.

Both make sense to me, I think both are reasonable assumptions.

Edit- sorry I left out whole words and ****. This hardly made any sense. I'm off to bed.

[Willie Pep 229]

Maybe that raises the question as to whether or not fighters would have fought any differently knowing they only had 12 rounds to win? All hypothetical.

Like T I see your point- but like T I just can't see Willard changing styles enough to ever out box JJ over 12 rounds.

Also MARs remarks regarding Willard's pre-fight quote makes me believe Willard thought the same way.

But with that said your premise I believe needs to be applied to all of the pre 1920s fights (20 rounds and above.)

I know we don't have much footage available but I would guess today we would be wrongly unimpressed with many of the old ATGs because they had no choice but to fight at a pace expecting to go 25 to 45 rounds.

IMO Your point is well taken but Willard isn't the guy it applies to.

[travestyny]

I'm unclear by your meaning. Are you saying Willard would have won a 12 round fight by the beginning of the 7th or that Willard can't beat Johnson in a 12 round fight?

Boxrec has Willard claiming he's training to beat Johnson after the 15th. Like, he said that **** before the fight. So if Willard doesn't think he can beat Johnson in a 15 rounder that's pretty strong evidence to suggest a modern Willard Johnson favors Johnson, imo. That's if Boxrec even has their **** together.

The numbers are easy though,

15/45 = 4/12
26/45 = 7/12

A fighter taking off 4 and winning by KO in the 7th is normal as **** now. I can definitely see the appeal of the same outcome just sped up kind of theory, but, I think if Jess was so willing to take a beating for 15 rounds because he didn't see any other way to win a 45 rounder he probably just takes a beating in a 12 rounder. Just not enough time for Jack to be tired enough for Jess to turn on.

Both make sense to me, I think both are reasonable assumptions.

Edit- sorry I left out whole words and ****. This hardly made any sense. I'm off to bed.

Right. His plan was always to wait until Johnson tired out. It definitely wasn't a secret and that's precisely why it was scheduled to be 45 rounds.


But as for Willard outboxing Johnson or knocking him out in a 12 - 15 round fight, even that version of Johnson....I just don't see it at all.

[markusmod]

Right. His plan was always to wait until Johnson tired out. It definitely wasn't a secret and that's precisely why it was scheduled to be 45 rounds.


But as for Willard outboxing Johnson or knocking him out in a 12 - 15 round fight, even that version of Johnson....I just don't see it at all.

Trav makes good points here.

[QueensburyRules]

Just as much as I complain that the old timers' greatness should not be evaluated by today's standards nor should Fury be judged by the standards of the past.

He has proven himself a champion and that should be respected.

He needs to beat a few more top ranked HWs and we can start to think a about the ATG label. Not yet.

Still some proving needs to be done, but so far he has shown grit and power. He now needs to show he can handle a top shelf technician.

- -Already melted once in the stillborn Wlad rematch. Make it thrice now, ie AJ's American debut and then the $150 mil Saudi purse vs AJ.

I say this as a former Fury fan in the same vein as being a former SRLeonard fan or former Ali fan. The echo chamber of modern scribes, orgs, and commishes that dominate most of modern boxing saw the need to elevate them into elite all time greats beyond what they achieved in the latter stages of their careers where most of the time they just showed up to collect substantial purse with all the officiating in their corner.

[Greb5000]

Willard by decision as he had more snap, faster hands, better chin, more stanima.. Fury is abit overrated

[Willie Pep 229]

Willard by decision as he had more snap, faster hands, better chin, more stanima.. Fury is abit overrated

I see only nine posts. . . let me offer some advise . . . you should re-post this over in the NSB section . . . and then duck!

p.s. I don't necessarily disagree with you.

[HOUDINI563]

Willard the day he fought Johnson was fit enough to fight the world and carried into this bout terrific power with his right hand as well as an impressive jab.

He also fought the strategy developed for him to win this bout to the letter. Add to this the durability to take the shots he took from Johnson over the first 20 rounds. Willard this day would have been a formidable opponent for most any past or current heavyweight champion.

[HOUDINI563]

The plan Willards trainers developed certainly looked to taking the bout into the later rounds. However there was more to it.

Willard was to slowly back off as Johnson attacked causing many of Johnson’s blows to fall short. He also employed an excellent jab and worked his right to Johnson’s body before bringing it up to the head.

Willard was one super fit heavyweight the day he fought Johnson. His trainers were having him run up the steepest hills they could find to develop his stamina and leg strength.