Tyson Fury in the firmament of all time

[HOUDINI563]

Two big but lowly skilled heavyweights. Watch the bout and it had its exciting rounds.

Wilder started well doing what I would have suggested…going to the body. However his attempts were amateurish and short lived and soon he went head hunting. Right hand crazy, no attempts to slip and counter. Just winding up from right field, no jab, wild and occasional hooks. By round 3-4 he appeared shot with his legs barely able to hold him up. Wilder has yet to learn how to fight.

Fury attacked clumsily with roundhouse blows. Good long jab but not much else. I am just sickened that anyone would mention in the same breath any of the Ali Frazier bouts with this exciting mess of a fight. Ali and Frazier were elite very skilled fighters. Neither fighter last night showed 10% of that ability. The heavyweight division, from a skill standpoint, sunk to a new low although for the lay fan the bout probably boosted the sport.

[Willie Pep 229]

Agree with your take; but him landing on a good boxer isn't what makes him successful against most, its him negating them from landing on him. His size, reach, and movement make him very difficult to take down. As he showed in the the Wilder fights and vs Klitchsko, if you get close to him he will wrap you up, lean on you, and prevent anything from happening.

To beat Fury someone needs to be either bigger than him with enough movement and quickness to keep up (not likely), have that one punch power with the size to withstand his mauling (Wilder came close in the 4th rd, but didnt get it), or be a good inside fighter with enough size to handle his roughhousing.

Historically speaking, I wonder which guys best fit that last criteria? A mentally strong Bowe? A confident young George? Maybe a Dempsey, but that size difference is a bit much

I agree with your take he is tough to hit clean for such a big man. He is surprisingly light on his feet.

But Wilder did catch him twice (I & III) - YES Dempsey may well have been too small for Fury but if you watch the first two minutes of Dempsey-Willard fight, Dempsey does an amazing job of moving in-out not letting Willard settle in to punch. At times Dempsey even turns half around and walks away from Willard.

Oddly though, Willard who did a great job of leaning on Johnson for 25 rounds and tiring him out for some reason didn't try to apply the same tactic against Dempsey, always offering to break clean without the wrestling when they did tie up. I always wondered why he (Willard) didn't use the same tactic against Dempsey (early on).

A Foreman fight I suspect would be a slug fest that I would never bet on - no clue how that would work out. Fury certainly has shown he can take a big shot and pull that massive body off the deck.

I think the guy who good handle Fury would be a prime Ali. Wilder's punches seemed as wide and reaching as Fury's did. Instead someone who could land straight, hard punches, avoid being tied up, and has a great jaw would be the guy I would bet could take Fury, that is Ali.

[markusmod]

I agree with your take he is tough to hit clean for such a big man. He is surprisingly light on his feet.

But Wilder did catch him twice (I & III) - YES Dempsey may well have been too small for Fury but if you watch the first two minutes of Dempsey-Willard fight, Dempsey does an amazing job of moving in-out not letting Willard settle in to punch. At times Dempsey even turns half around and walks away from Willard.

Oddly though, Willard who did a great job of leaning on Johnson for 25 rounds and tiring him out for some reason didn't try to apply the same tactic against Dempsey, always offering to break clean without the wrestling when they did tie up. I always wondered why he (Willard) didn't use the same tactic against Dempsey (early on).

A Foreman fight I suspect would be a slug fest that I would never bet on - no clue how that would work out. Fury certainly has shown he can take a big shot and pull that massive body off the deck.

I think the guy who good handle Fury would be a prime Ali. Wilder's punches seemed as wide and reaching as Fury's did. Instead someone who could land straight, hard punches, avoid being tied up, and has a great jaw would be the guy I would bet could take Fury, that is Ali.

Wilder caught him plenty of times, but during the second half he was dead tired and he lost that dynamite on his punches.

[QueensburyRules]

Meaningess statistic. Larry Holmes didn't have his prime during the 4 belt, "anyone can be a champion" era.

- -Poor Lar had the most meaningless belt belt possible in an "even Lar can be awarded an administrative belt in a 3 belt era."

Thanks for the reminder. Lar my all time favorite punch dummy. Gonna commission a local artist to render a water color of Lar trying to lift Rocky's jock strap with Rocky and Ali sitting on Ali's Rocky Rock at Ali's training camp in the background laughing.

[QueensburyRules]

Two big but lowly skilled heavyweights. Watch the bout and it had its exciting rounds.

Wilder started well doing what I would have suggested…going to the body. However his attempts were amateurish and short lived and soon he went head hunting. Right hand crazy, no attempts to slip and counter. Just winding up from right field, no jab, wild and occasional hooks. By round 3-4 he appeared shot with his legs barely able to hold him up. Wilder has yet to learn how to fight.

Fury attacked clumsily with roundhouse blows. Good long jab but not much else. I am just sickened that anyone would mention in the same breath any of the Ali Frazier bouts with this exciting mess of a fight. Ali and Frazier were elite very skilled fighters. Neither fighter last night showed 10% of that ability. The heavyweight division, from a skill standpoint, sunk to a new low although for the lay fan the bout probably boosted the sport.

- -Ali and Frazier never had a double dose of the Corona either.

Wilder is punch drunk in and out of the ring. Net result was an entertaining club fighter brawl, but clearly Fury has been physically damaged by the Corona, perhaps permanently. Already diagnosed as mentally ill and no telling when he runs off the track again.

[QueensburyRules]

I agree with your take he is tough to hit clean for such a big man. He is surprisingly light on his feet.

But Wilder did catch him twice (I & III) - YES Dempsey may well have been too small for Fury but if you watch the first two minutes of Dempsey-Willard fight, Dempsey does an amazing job of moving in-out not letting Willard settle in to punch. At times Dempsey even turns half around and walks away from Willard.

Oddly though, Willard who did a great job of leaning on Johnson for 25 rounds and tiring him out for some reason didn't try to apply the same tactic against Dempsey, always offering to break clean without the wrestling when they did tie up. I always wondered why he (Willard) didn't use the same tactic against Dempsey (early on).

- -Pep, you answered your own question.

JJ had no respect for Willard as just another Great White Dope and came right at him going for the KO. How was he to know since so little was known about Jess other than being a cowboy turned boxer late in his prime years?

[QueensburyRules]

Agree with your take; but him landing on a good boxer isn't what makes him successful against most, its him negating them from landing on him. His size, reach, and movement make him very difficult to take down. As he showed in the the Wilder fights and vs Klitchsko, if you get close to him he will wrap you up, lean on you, and prevent anything from happening.

To beat Fury someone needs to be either bigger than him with enough movement and quickness to keep up (not likely), have that one punch power with the size to withstand his mauling (Wilder came close in the 4th rd, but didnt get it), or be a good inside fighter with enough size to handle his roughhousing.

Historically speaking, I wonder which guys best fit that last criteria? A mentally strong Bowe? A confident young George? Maybe a Dempsey, but that size difference is a bit much

- -Rematch Wlad who wouldn't have been saddled with a post partum depression celebrity wife and new born girl needing constant love and attentions as all babys need.

That's why Fury melted. He didn't want to get KOed, same reason he ducked AJ.

[medium-deek]

My God why? The Brits must be terrible, very terrible.

I've always preferred to hear what the yanks got to say. just like listening to their opinion during the course of the fight than us Brits.

[HOUDINI563]

A smaller fighter does not have to be leaned upon all night vs a larger opponent.

Once inside the smaller heavyweight needs to put his head onto his opponents shoulder (come out of a deep crouch). Then proceed to pound the body ala Dempsey etc.

If you watch Dempsey Willard Dempsey does just this. However it’s clouded to a degree as after that first brutal hook Willard was done. You see it more so in rounds 2 and 3.

[The Old LefHook]

Marciano would set a frightening pace, making each round a punching bee, and so would have Fury puking within five sessions. The T-rex barely has arms to tie up, and Fury would take fierce uppercuts for even trying. One to the pit of the doughboy's blubber house may suddenly end it all.