Duran vs Mosley 135

[GJC]

Ugh! Spare me from the shriveled gullywackers that age bringeth on

Poet

Glad to see you are continuing with your one man crusade to get gullywacker back into common useage

[Dynamite Kid]

Well 1st fight I ever saw was Joe Baksi (hence the pic) v Freddie Mills with my father. Mills fought bravely but couldn't handle Baksi's size and got slaughtered. So at 7 I thought Baksi was the greatest most undefeatable fighter ever My father did mention a fellow by the name of Joe Louis come to think of it.
So always had a love of it from my Dad, had a bit of luck growing up that a fellow who lived in our road used to cut and put those little films shows together like Pathe news (?) so he used to get access to a lot of fights and let me see them so so a lot of fights which maybe others haven't been so fortunate to see.
Probably was the wrong side of the pond to see some of the great fighters unfortunately but tried to see who I could when they came over. Saw SRR twice but in the 60's missed the Turpin fight unfortunately. Saw Ali Cooper 2nd one. Seen Frazier. Seen Tyson. Been to Vegas saw Holmes Shavers 2 and saw the Holyfield Lewis draw at the garden which was always an ambition of mine to go to. 60th treat from my son as I was 70 this year I'm hoping he is reading this lol.
Oh and saw Lloyd Marshall fight live but only for a minute, check other thread for that lol.
So I guess an old timer compared with some but I wouldn't say it makes me more knowledgable. Think the only thing I can comment on better than some maybe is the man in the streets opinion at certain points in time when maybe people are working on knowledge from books written by people who wasn't even there, if you know what I mean?

Nice post.

You seen some of the greats man, big respect.

[GJC]

Nice post.

You seen some of the greats man, big respect.

More than some and less than some I guess. Only saw SRR as an old man unfortunately and whilst I saw Ali pretty peak he was efficient rather than great.

[The Jackal]

Duran no offence to anyone but why people are putting in opponents with Duran at 135, is not justified yes Mosley is a Hall of Fame but Duran is top 5 ATG & after Dejesus-2 was invincible at 135.

[BennyST]

Some strange responses here. Duran no jab? Mosley get Ko'd? Duran couldn't handle the speed? Mosley could outbox him? Man, if anyone gets outboxed it wouldn't be Duran. His jab is much better, more educated and would give Mosley problems in getting in, and when he threw his fast flurries, Duran would inevitably slip, counter and get inside much like he did with Leonard's flurries. If you think Mosley's speed would trouble Duran just check out his fights against Leonard, Buchanan and De Jesus. All were fast boxer/punchers and Duran had no trouble slipping, timing, and funnily enough, out-jabbing them to neutralise their supposed better jab.

Mosley actually fights similar to how Leonard did early on in his career. He has fast hands and likes to stand and trade. He is not a boxer though, like Leonard and wouldn't outbox Duran. He doesn't have a jab that would trouble him, nor would the speed be too much either, as Duran's counter punching and slipping, upper body movement would negate most of that and his speed at lightweight was considerable too.

It would be a great fight, but I just think Mosley didn't have the right tools to win. It would be a close but clear decision win for Duran. Mosley wouldn't tire badly enough down the stretch to get KO'd either, but, you needed more than fast hands. The other big thing is that Mosley often telegraphs his punches and his combinations are often predictable. You can always tell when the right hand is coming and Duran was rarely ever hit with right hands as he was so adept at rolling and slipping them. I think the main thing though would be Mosley having his weak, pawing jab countered with Duran's right over the top all night and him not being able to get in combinations and being outworked on the inside as he just tries to tie up and would get badly worked over to the body in there.

On the outside or at midrange where Mosley likes to fight and trade from, he wouldn't land many punches as Duran was too good at slipping, he would also get the pawing jab countered a lot, and then when Duran got inside, Mosley wouldn't fight there because he's not very good at it and he would get worked over too much to win a decision. Good, exciting fight though.

[GJC]

Some strange responses here. Duran no jab? Mosley get Ko'd? Duran couldn't handle the speed? Mosley could outbox him? Man, if anyone gets outboxed it wouldn't be Duran. His jab is much better, more educated and would give Mosley problems in getting in, and when he threw his fast flurries, Duran would inevitably slip, counter and get inside much like he did with Leonard's flurries. If you think Mosley's speed would trouble Duran just check out his fights against Leonard, Buchanan and De Jesus. All were fast boxer/punchers and Duran had no trouble slipping, timing, and funnily enough, out-jabbing them to neutralise their supposed better jab.

Mosley actually fights similar to how Leonard did early on in his career. He has fast hands and likes to stand and trade. He is not a boxer though, like Leonard and wouldn't outbox Duran. He doesn't have a jab that would trouble him, nor would the speed be too much either, as Duran's counter punching and slipping, upper body movement would negate most of that and his speed at lightweight was considerable too.

It would be a great fight, but I just think Mosley didn't have the right tools to win. It would be a close but clear decision win for Duran. Mosley wouldn't tire badly enough down the stretch to get KO'd either, but, you needed more than fast hands. The other big thing is that Mosley often telegraphs his punches and his combinations are often predictable. You can always tell when the right hand is coming and Duran was rarely ever hit with right hands as he was so adept at rolling and slipping them. I think the main thing though would be Mosley having his weak, pawing jab countered with Duran's right over the top all night and him not being able to get in combinations and being outworked on the inside as he just tries to tie up and would get badly worked over to the body in there.

On the outside or at midrange where Mosley likes to fight and trade from, he wouldn't land many punches as Duran was too good at slipping, he would also get the pawing jab countered a lot, and then when Duran got inside, Mosley wouldn't fight there because he's not very good at it and he would get worked over too much to win a decision. Good, exciting fight though.

Good post, it does seem to be many peoples view that Duran was simply a brawler and not a lot of appreciation of his skills.
Had Duran simply been a brawler he could not have been able to fight at a high level well into his 40's

[StarshipTrooper]

Good post, it does seem to be many peoples view that Duran was simply a brawler and not a lot of appreciation of his skills.
Had Duran simply been a brawler he could not have been able to fight at a high level well into his 40's

I get the feeling a lot of non-hardcore fans tend to watch fights VERY superficially.

Poet

[GJC]

I get the feeling a lot of non-hardcore fans tend to watch fights VERY superficially.

Poet

Or maybe one fight and decide that the guys other 50/100 fights must have been exactly the same.
I think what a lot of people overlook is that by and large when you get to top 50 ATG level the fighters there have one thing in common they are great problem solvers.
They have a default plan A but can adapt a plan B if plan A isn't working.

[StarshipTrooper]

Or maybe one fight and decide that the guys other 50/100 fights must have been exactly the same.
I think what a lot of people overlook is that by and large when you get to top 50 ATG level the fighters there have one thing in common they are great problem solvers.
They have a default plan A but can adapt a plan B if plan A isn't working.

And plan A may not work against every opponent: That's one of the reason's I value so highly the ability to adapt when rating fighters. That's also, btw, why I don't rate short-armed pressure fighters as highly as some: Their physical limitations lock them in to fighting one way all the time and prevent them from adapting to certain opponents. While I still consider them all-time greats they tend to be in the bottom half of my ATG lists. Hence my contoversial ranking of Marciano, Tyson, and Frazier at numbers 9,10, and 11 respectively on my Heavyweight ATG list.

Poet