I Came, I visited, thus the results of Perno.com

[QueensburyRules]

- -Yes I did, and of course immediately a bone to pick, not a big deal in this day and age of hyperextremism, ie-

"How Jack Johnson made D. W. Griffith rewrite his film Birth of a Nation."

Lot of unsupported extrapolation to get to that statement, so it shouldn't be couched as history anymore than Aunt Bernice's weak attempts. Today we have modern day media appointed historians making up history as fiction and of course the Hollywoodzation of history like that JFK film and the like where most of the unwashed public get their history.

Crimony, the Ali Autobio turned out to be a bunch of hooey, but it sold good$$$

[Willie Pep 229]

http://www.perno.com/history/JJ%20an...%20nation.html

Thanks for the critique; no such thing as bad press.

I hope some others will read it and give their opinion.

[QueensburyRules]

http://www.perno.com/history/JJ%20an...%20nation.html

Thanks for the critique; no such thing as bad press.

I hope some others will read it and give their opinion.

- -Looked like plenty of good stuff too, but problem being it's unsecured that sent me scurrying. Don't have the technical chops to help you secure it other than to move it to another internet platform...

[Marchegiano]

I'm not sure what to think to be honest. I can't tell if this is conjecture or if the author has more than circumstances behind his theory.

What I mean to say is everything makes sense and in my opinion very well could have gone that way, but, just because JJ was huge at the time and Griffith reworked the story doesn't mean one is directly related to the other. Could simply be they're both archetypal, or rather, Jack was as popular as he was for the same reason Griffith reworked the story. It's totally possible Griffith based his character off multiple black men of the era.

1904blackbizmen.png

Look at all those black men daring to be successful businessmen and dressing in respectable clothes. Griffith had plenty of inspiration.

That said, just because I reckon JJ probably wasn't the sole inspiration doesn't mean I don't think he was part of it. It would be hard to avoid Jack on that subject in those times. So I have little reservation agreeing he may have inspired the character, I just don't think he did it alone.

On that front I think the Cameron name is a happy stroke of luck. It's not as if he planted the name in the original story. So again, Jack probably had some influence over the character but I doubt he take the credit entirely. She too is probably based off a number of women.

[Willie Pep 229]

I'm not sure what to think to be honest. I can't tell if this is conjecture or if the author has more than circumstances behind his theory.

What I mean to say is everything makes sense and in my opinion very well could have gone that way, but, just because JJ was huge at the time and Griffith reworked the story doesn't mean one is directly related to the other. Could simply be they're both archetypal, or rather, Jack was as popular as he was for the same reason Griffith reworked the story. It's totally possible Griffith based his character off multiple black men of the era.

1904blackbizmen.png

Look at all those black men daring to be successful businessmen and dressing in respectable clothes. Griffith had plenty of inspiration.

That said, just because I reckon JJ probably wasn't the sole inspiration doesn't mean I don't think he was part of it. It would be hard to avoid Jack on that subject in those times. So I have little reservation agreeing he may have inspired the character, I just don't think he did it alone.

On that front I think the Cameron name is a happy stroke of luck. It's not as if he planted the name in the original story. So again, Jack probably had some influence over the character but I doubt he take the credit entirely. She too is probably based off a number of women.

That is my conjecture . . . the main cause for the change IMO is miscegenation and the year that the film was under production was the year that JJ married, beat on, Cameron. He was at that moment the poster child for all of White society fears associated with miscegenation.

Yes the name was quite a stroke of luck.

The most damning evidence against Griffith is his decision to change which character (to the one named Cameron) has the encounter and committs suicide. The original novel had a whole different character suffer the 'abuse.'

That character is completely written out of the film.

Thanks for giving it a read and replying I appreciate it.

[Marchegiano]

That is my conjecture . . . the main cause for the change IMO is miscegenation and the year that the film was under production was the year that JJ married, beat on, Cameron. He was at that moment the poster child for all of White society fears associated with miscegenation.

Yes the name was quite a stroke of luck.

The most damning evidence against Griffith is his decision to change which character (to the one named Cameron) has the encounter and committs suicide. The original novel had a whole different character suffer the 'abuse.'

That character is completely written out of the film.

Thanks for giving it a read and replying I appreciate it.

I didn't realize that's yours Your first post in this thread is apropos; now I know this a bit more than just something Bury found.



Anyway, It all fits bud and the more it settles the more I'm in agreement. You don't need more than Jack to explain the differences...that alone is pretty powerful. If I could think of some other inspiration I would have offered him, or her, in my first post but honestly you only need Jack and his wife, and, I can't think of any other specific man who fits so well.

[Marchegiano]

Also, finding my way to the main page, super cool site. I'm excited to look through it.

[QueensburyRules]

- -JJ fled America in 1912 after the Mann Act *** trafficking verdict and pretty much a nonentity in the American press save for the few times he fought in Paris that were duly reported.

KOed in Cuba by Willard in the debut year of Birth of a Nation and wouldn't return stateside 'til years later where again, he was an nonentity in the press save for his prison sentence, all duly reported.

As I understand it, DW wanted the Clansman to be a glorification of the KKK 2.0 riding in to save the South from the corrupt Carpetbagger North occupation, hence the Union officer role.

Me thinks you boys have confused Howie Sackler's The Great White Hope that was unabashedly lifted directly from JJ's life complete with his white wife on full display in full angst with each other.

BTW, I used to wrestle around with a kid named David Griffith in our youth. His pop worked in some capacity down at the local TV station, and his brother was a sniffy classical music nerd who used to get mad anytime David messed with his record collection which was often. Sop****re year of HS he shot himself in the head to be no more, probably a goofy experiment he was always prone to. Often wondered if he were related to DW, perhaps a great grandpa. That's more smoking gun evidence than I see in DW using the JJ life story by completely altering it, I mean, c'mon!

[Willie Pep 229]

- -JJ fled America in 1912 after the Mann Act *** trafficking verdict and pretty much a nonentity in the American press save for the few times he fought in Paris that were duly reported.

KOed in Cuba by Willard in the debut year of Birth of a Nation and wouldn't return stateside 'til years later where again, he was an nonentity in the press save for his prison sentence, all duly reported.

As I understand it, DW wanted the Clansman to be a glorification of the KKK 2.0 riding in to save the South from the corrupt Carpetbagger North occupation, hence the Union officer role.

Me thinks you boys have confused Howie Sackler's The Great White Hope that was unabashedly lifted directly from JJ's life complete with his white wife on full display in full angst with each other.

BTW, I used to wrestle around with a kid named David Griffith in our youth. His pop worked in some capacity down at the local TV station, and his brother was a sniffy classical music nerd who used to get mad anytime David messed with his record collection which was often. Sop****re year of HS he shot himself in the head to be no more, probably a goofy experiment he was always prone to. Often wondered if he were related to DW, perhaps a great grandpa. That's more smoking gun evidence than I see in DW using the JJ life story by completely altering it, I mean, c'mon!

No the film was in production in 1913 to 1914 and released in 1915 was likely being written in 1913 - JJ was convicted in May 1913 not 1912 and then fled the country. He was beating on L. Cameron in 1912, The film likely completed pre-production right around the time JJ fled.

The timing is actually PERFECT I am not confusing shlt..

I never said he COMPLETELY based the film on JJ - I said he changed a brutal **** scence to a marriage proposal instead and altered which character then committed suicide (so the name would match Cameron's) and why they committed suicide: **** (novel') vs.a marriage proposal (film). That is the change that occurrd nothing more and I repeat the timing was PERFECT!

You don't want to see it you don't have to, but you are misrepresenting my argument!

[QueensburyRules]

No the film was in production in 1913 to 1914 and released in 1915 was likely being written in 1913 - JJ was convicted in May 1913 not 1912 and then fled the country. He was beating on L. Cameron in 1912, The film likely completed pre-production right around the time JJ fled.

The timing is actually PERFECT I am not confusing shlt..

I never said he COMPLETELY based the film on JJ - I said he changed a brutal **** scence to a marriage proposal instead and altered which character then committed suicide (so the name would match Cameron's) and why they committed suicide: **** (novel') vs.a marriage proposal (film). That is the change that occurrd nothing more and I repeat the timing was PERFECT!

You don't want to see it you don't have to, but you are misrepresenting my argument!

- -Looks like a t1t for tat correction- He was arrested in 1912 and convicted June 1913 to flee the country. His last fight had been in the barren sticks of New Mexico in something much worse than last Saturday's Rigomortis/Cassi bout.

What I'm saying is that JJ had become irrelevant as far as the media save the puerile Mann Act coverage. I'm also saying sans contributing attribution that you are putting the JJ character in the movie as you change everything about him. Seems a hit or miss stretch at best, but hey ho, artistic license. A decade from now some aspiring writer will make him gay and that will be the new normal...