Uncle Ben, this one is for you! Liston versus Holmes... who wins it?

[billeau2]

I started this thread for a few reasons:
In debating about Foreman versus the Easton Assassin its pretty cut and dry. Foreman never beat a technically skilled boxer on the level of Holmes, or Young. But Foreman was a protege of Sonny Liston.

I feel that certain heavy weights are undervalued. I put Young in this category, and Liston as well. Ali beat Foreman in a dramatic fashion and nobody could do what Ali did in the ring, kind of like Jones... Ali had his ways. But Young chowed a classic master class of how to dismantle a puncher. Holmes likewise would have been too much for George as a pure puncher IMO.

But Liston? were talking a guy who cut the ring, had fast feet, threw combos and was perhaps the best finisher ever in the division... certainly on any short list.

Im going to take a minority position and say that Liston wins this because: when he got to Holmes, he would not let Larry off the hook. And its that simple. Liston was technically superior to George and could punch almost, if not as hard.

Thoughts?

[markusmod]

I started this thread for a few reasons:
In debating about Foreman versus the Easton Assassin its pretty cut and dry. Foreman never beat a technically skilled boxer on the level of Holmes, or Young. But Foreman was a protege of Sonny Liston.

I feel that certain heavy weights are undervalued. I put Young in this category, and Liston as well. Ali beat Foreman in a dramatic fashion and nobody could do what Ali did in the ring, kind of like Jones... Ali had his ways. But Young chowed a classic master class of how to dismantle a puncher. Holmes likewise would have been too much for George as a pure puncher IMO.

But Liston? were talking a guy who cut the ring, had fast feet, threw combos and was perhaps the best finisher ever in the division... certainly on any short list.

Im going to take a minority position and say that Liston wins this because: when he got to Holmes, he would not let Larry off the hook. And its that simple. Liston was technically superior to George and could punch almost, if not as hard.

Thoughts?

uncle ben is ducking.

But I would side with Holmes. I just think its a bad style for Sonny

[billeau2]

uncle ben is ducking.

But I would side with Holmes. I just think its a bad style for Sonny

There are so many different ways evaluating Fighters and fights. When you look at someone like Roy Jones, his natural ability carried him so far. 1 bias I have is that I think if Roy Jones fought someone like Ray Robinson because Ray Robinson has natural ability in addition to incredible technical ability I just think Robinson to take the fight at any weight. I mention this because to me Liston was the most complete heavy weight and that gives him his advantage.

Holmes was hit by punchers, but imo Liston would not let him off the hook. I also think most people would give it to Holmes... and it also makes sense...

[markusmod]

There are so many different ways evaluating Fighters and fights. When you look at someone like Roy Jones, his natural ability carried him so far. 1 bias I have is that I think if Roy Jones fought someone like Ray Robinson because Ray Robinson has natural ability in addition to incredible technical ability I just think Robinson to take the fight at any weight. I mention this because to me Liston was the most complete heavy weight and that gives him his advantage.

Holmes was hit by punchers, but imo Liston would not let him off the hook. I also think most people would give it to Holmes... and it also makes sense...

Tyson certainly never let him off the hook.

[The Old LefHook]

I don't believe George ever put Sonny among his jelly makers. Big cat Williams, Cooney, Lyle--those were the big punchers George himself heaped at the top of his personal list from experience.

[billeau2]

Tyson certainly never let him off the hook.

Good Point! Larry was a bit past it, but fought well for a while there, couldn't keep it up though...

[billeau2]

I don't believe George ever put Sonny among his jelly makers. Big cat Williams, Cooney, Lyle--those were the big punchers George himself heaped at the top of his personal list from experience.

I think Liston scared Big George... He said as much lol.

[dreamroom]

Both in their prime, Liston beats Holmes. Nobody gives Liston credit for his jab. Sonny knocked people down with his jab. I think comparing Sonny's to Larry's jab, I would give Holmes the edge in form and speed. I believe he has the best jab in history. But Sonny was an above average jabber, with power in both hands. I don't think Larry has the "check hook" that Ali knocked Liston out with.

[billeau2]

Larry certainly beat big punchers. But none of those punchers (Shavers, Cooney, etc) had the finishing skills that Liston had, and Liston could punch hard enough to be in a similar league as any big puncher. larry would be trying to regain against a guy with power in both hands, who could fight at any range, and who went for blood when blood was in the water. Marksmod brought up the Tyson Holmes fight... I know Larry was past his best, but I think the Liston fight would have some of the same features. Holmes didn't have the legs to avoid Tyson at his age... With the legs, Liston imo finds him greatly diminished and finishes him just the same.

[QueensburyRules]

I think Liston scared Big George... He said as much lol.

- -Is that why they was best friends and sparring partners?

Ooooooh, scary scary U panties on firel...