How would Jimmy Ellis have done as a Light Heavyweight?

[Saban]

Jimmy Ellis was one of the most underrated boxers. He fought in a very tough era for heavyweights, but still managed to win the WBA Heavyweight Title. I think that Ellis would have been a great Light Heavyweight. What do people here think?

[QueensburyRules]

Jimmy Ellis was one of the most underrated boxers. He fought in a very tough era for heavyweights, but still managed to win the WBA Heavyweight Title. I think that Ellis would have been a great Light Heavyweight. What do people here think?

- -Well, given he was mostly beating light heavies, probably purt fair today...

[Saban]

Actually, Ellis was fighting middleweights for almost four years after turning pro in 1961. He then had only a couple of fights at 176 lbs. and then fought as a heavyweight after that.

Angelo Dundee (Ellis' manager and trainer since sometime in 1965) wanted Jimmy to fight at light heavy, but Ellis wanted to fight as a heavyweight (for hopefully more money I guess).

[Willie Pep 229]

Actually, Ellis was fighting middleweights for almost four years after turning pro in 1961. He then had only a couple of fights at 176 lbs. and then fought as a heavyweight after that.

Angelo Dundee (Ellis' manager and trainer since sometime in 1965) wanted Jimmy to fight at light heavy, but Ellis wanted to fight as a heavyweight (for hopefully more money I guess).

He campaigned at 176 as late as fall '65 - by spring '66 he over 190 for his next fight. Wonder if that was period Dundee was trying to persuade him to stay at LHW.

He trimmed down to the mid 180s during his best years - later he was mostly fighting in the 190s and at times 200+.

You get the feeling he could gave campaigned as a LHW for a while but he was going to have to bump up eventually.

[Saban]

Good point, but he did fight nearly 4 years as a middleweight. It seems like he should have been able to fight at 175 after that for at least a few years if he wanted to.

I don't think that Ellis' pro career was handled very well at the beginning of it. For instance, Floyd Patterson started out as a light heavy when turned pro at age 17. Ellis looked bigger than Patterson when they fought, yet started as a pro in the middleweight division at the age of 21 and stayed at middleweight for almost 4 years.

Also, Jimmy was put in with contenders shortly after turning pro. I believe that he should have been brought along more slowly as a light heavy after turning pro, much like Patterson was.

[markusmod]

Good point, but he did fight nearly 4 years as a middleweight. It seems like he should have been able to fight at 175 after that for at least a few years if he wanted to.

I don't think that Ellis' pro career was handled very well at the beginning of it. For instance, Floyd Patterson started out as a light heavy when turned pro at age 17. Ellis looked bigger than Patterson when they fought, yet started as a pro in the middleweight division at the age of 21 and stayed at middleweight for almost 4 years.

Also, Jimmy was put in with contenders shortly after turning pro. I believe that he should have been brought along more slowly as a light heavy after turning pro, much like Patterson was.

Some good points made here.

[Saban]

Thanks for the nice responses.

I believe that Jimmy Ellis could have won an Olympic Gold Medal with a little better luck. Jimmy lost a close decision to Wilbert McClure in the finals of the Olympic Trials in the light middleweight division in 1960. McClure was the best middle division boxer of that era. In fact, McClure was named the outstanding amateur boxer of 1959. Wilbert also went on to win the gold in the 1960 Olympic Games. He also won the National AAU Championship in both 1959 and 1960. McClure won the Pan American Games Championship and a bunch of other things.

So, with no McClure, I think that Ellis could have gone on to win the gold in 1960. Jimmy had a good amateur record winning nearly 60 bouts. He also won a fight against some guy named Cassius Clay in 1957. Very underrated fighter.

[markusmod]

Thanks for the nice responses.

I believe that Jimmy Ellis could have won an Olympic Gold Medal with a little better luck. Jimmy lost a close decision to Wilbert McClure in the finals of the Olympic Trials in the light middleweight division in 1960. McClure was the best middle division boxer of that era. In fact, McClure was named the outstanding amateur boxer of 1959. Wilbert also went on to win the gold in the 1960 Olympic Games. He also won the National AAU Championship in both 1959 and 1960. McClure won the Pan American Games Championship and a bunch of other things.

So, with no McClure, I think that Ellis could have gone on to win the gold in 1960. Jimmy had a good amateur record winning nearly 60 bouts. He also won a fight against some guy named Cassius Clay in 1957. Very underrated fighter.

Is there footage out there of his amateur fights?

[Saban]

Is there footage out there of his amateur fights?

I wish. If there are any films of Ellis' amateur bouts, I would love to see them. The only ones of Jimmy Ellis that I know of are his pro fights against Hurricane Carter and maybe Holly Mims as a middleweight and against George Chuvalo, Muhammad Ali, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Shavers, Oscar Bonavena, Leotis Martin, Jerry Quarry, and his two fights with Joe Frazier. I wish that there were more.

[Saban]

It seems to me that it would have to be easier for Jimmy Ellis to fight at 175 than to fight guys like Joe Frazier, Muhammad Ali, Floyd Patterson, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry, Oscar Bonavena, George Chuvalo, and Leotis Martin. Other than Patterson and maybe one or two other boxers, Ellis always was fighting bigger fighters as a heavyweight. It would have been nice if he fought guys the same size as himself and nobody like Frazier, Ali, Lyle, etc.