It's too quiet

[travestyny]

1. That's not Rickard saying Dempsey is ducking Wills (he says any other fighter as well) that is Rickard being cheap.

Is it not Rickard saying Dempsey is pricing himself out of the fight? That's what I stated.

2. A year later (I assuming that is 1922 you posted) Rickard paid Dempsey 550K for the Firpo fight.

So so much for Rickard's BS

You misrepresented Rickard's attitude towards Dempsey

Rickard's complaint is not particular to a Wills fight.

Say what? So are you going to pretend they don't mention Wills name there? Do I have to type it out?

What makes me think that Dempsey will not get into the ring with Wills this year is the price he puts on his services

Or how about this part?

The promoter said today that he could not convince himself that the champion was sincere in his declared willingness to meet the negro.

Is this not Rickard saying Dempsey is pricing himself out of a fight specifically with Wills?


So did I misrepresent this or nah? Which one of us is Fox news now?

Finally this is part of that nonsense when YOUR BOYS at the NYSAC threatened to strip Dempsey and then balked like b itches when the day came.

You mean the bs Dempsey and company drummed up with no date and no venue, avoiding promoters.


So are you ever going to address the rebuttal to your accusation that only amateur promoters wanted to promote the Wills fight? Apparently amateurs that his team chose and YOUR BOY BALKED LIKE....(like what exactly, Willie?) by breaking a contract before the day came. Right?


Turns out one of the men you accused of being an amateur was the top promoter in Chicago, and also was the sole reason we all got to see the Jack Johnson / Tommy Burns fight. I showed you this in the other thread as well, but you avoided it.

So Doc Krone still qualifies as an amateur, or was this just something you made up for lack of a better argument regarding Dempsey ducking?

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Just admit it already. Dempsey ducked Wills.

[Willie Pep 229]

Is it not Rickard saying Dempsey is pricing himself out of the fight? That's what I stated.




Say what? So are you going to pretend they don't mention Wills name there? Do I have to type it out?




Or how about this part?



Is this not Rickard saying Dempsey is pricing himself out of a fight specifically with Wills?


So did I misrepresent this or nah? Which one of us is Fox news now?




You mean the bs Dempsey and company drummed up with no date and no venue, avoiding promoters.


So are you ever going to address the rebuttal to your accusation that only amateur promoters wanted to promote the Wills fight? Apparently amateurs that his team chose and YOUR BOY BALKED LIKE....(like what exactly, Willie?) by breaking a contract before the day came. Right?


Turns out one of the men you accused of being an amateur was the top promoter in Chicago, and also was the sole reason we all got to see the Jack Johnson / Tommy Burns fight. I showed you this in the other thread as well, but you avoided it.

So Doc Krone still qualifies as an amateur, or was this just something you made up for lack of a better argument regarding Dempsey ducking?

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Just admit it already. Dempsey ducked Wills.

Yes he says Dempseyvis pricing himself out of all fights including Wills.

Yes he mentions Wills by name because it is obvious he us replying to an inquiry by a New York reporter. But his answer to Wills is also an answer to ANY Dempsey fight.

His answer is not particular to Wills.

[travestyny]

Yes he says Dempseyvis pricing himself out of all fights including Wills.

Yes he mentions Wills by name because it is obvious he us replying to an inquiry by a New York reporter. But his answer to Wills is also an answer to ANY Dempsey fight.

His answer is not particular to Wills.

Who was the man that he should have fought at that time? The headline is regarding a Wills fight, right? When Dempsey came back from Europe at that time, the offer was for a Wills fight right. No mention from you of this:

The promoter said today that he could not convince himself that the champion was sincere in his declared willingness to meet the negro.

So Tex Rickard doubted Dempsey was really willing to meet...whom exactly?




And you are still ducking regarding your comment about amateur promoters, huh? Have you stopped to ask yourself why you are ducking that?

[Willie Pep 229]

Who was the man that he should have fought at that time? The headline is regarding a Wills fight, right? When Dempsey came back from Europe at that time, the offer was for a Wills fight right. No mention from you of this:




So Tex Rickard doubted Dempsey was really willing to meet...whom exactly?




And you are still ducking regarding your comment about amateur promoters, huh? Have you stopped to ask yourself why you are ducking that?

You are repeating yourself - in regards to the experience of the Chicago promoters they were not Tex Rickard. At that point in time no one but Rickard had ever produced a million dollar gate. It is that simple compared to Tex Rickard no one was experienced enough for Dempsey to take a risk on. It is obvious that even Fitzsimmons ( who originally signed Dempsey to the Chicago fight) lost trust in the deal and walked away. As did Dempsey, smartly.

I don't care what self promotion articles from these guys in Chicago you try to pass off on me as their supposed experience -- they were NOT Tex Rickard. That makes them amateurs.

[travestyny]

You are repeating yourself - in regards to the experience of the Chicago promoters they were not Tex Rickard. At that point in time no one but Rickard had ever produced a million dollar gate. It is that simple compared to Tex Rickard no one was experienced enough for Dempsey to take a risk on. It is obvious that even Fitzsimmons ( who originally signed Dempsey to the Chicago fight) lost trust in the deal and walked away. As did Dempsey, smartly.

I don't care what self promotion articles from these guys in Chicago you try to pass off on me as their supposed experience -- they were NOT Tex Rickard. That makes them amateurs.

So the top promoter in Chicago was an amateur because you say so, huh?

In your mind, Dempsey was allowed to sign a contract and agree to fight, but change his mind because it was not Tex Rickard, who himself couldn't convince himself that Dempsey wanted to fight Wills as far back as 1922. Right?

He was allowed to duck offers from Tom O'Rourke and William A. Brady. Both hall of fame promoters, right?



But when you discussed Dempsey vs. Greb, you said you should look at the offers. You didn't mention anything about it having to be for Rickard, right? So why does he need Rickard for Wills, but not for Greb?



And what about Dempsey's blame in the matter. He agreed to fight for the promoters, did he not? So who is to blame for the fight not coming off? Any proof that it was the promoters' fault, or no fault of the promoters at all?

[Willie Pep 229]

So the top promoter in Chicago was an amateur because you say so, huh?

In your mind, Dempsey was allowed to sign a contract and agree to fight, but change his mind because it was not Tex Rickard, who himself couldn't convince himself that Dempsey wanted to fight Wills as far back as 1922. Right?

He was allowed to duck offers from Tom O'Rourke and William A. Brady. Both hall of fame promoters, right?



But when you discussed Dempsey vs. Greb, you said you should look at the offers. You didn't mention anything about it having to be for Rickard, right? So why does he need Rickard for Wills, but not for Greb?



And what about Dempsey's blame in the matter. He agreed to fight for the promoters, did he not? So who is to blame for the fight not coming off? Any proof that it was the promoters' fault, or no fault of the promoters at all?

Not because I say so but because they never produced a million dollar gate and Dempsey cost that much.

You need to read the whole history of 1922 - Rickard did not want the Wills fught - he kept saying the "people didn't want it' ( which I agree was BS)

The best offer Brady made was 200k - Kearns was as your article points out wanted much more.

I am ignorant as to who O'Rouke was - sorry - I do know he never produced a million dollar gate

Funny but it was Fitzsimmons who was looking for a Dempsey- Greb match - I don't recall Rickard making an offer (he might have).

But it was Fitz who promoted the Miske fight and had Greb on the undercard ( along with Langford) and arranged the whole sparing thing with Dempsey - not Rickard.

All of Dempsey's championship fights ( save Miske) were with Rickard exclusively and Miske was with Fitzsimmons - I know you won't consider this but once Fitz bailed on Chicago I believe Dempsey lost interest.

I repeat he only fought for Rickard and once for Miske.

[travestyny]

no one was experienced enough for Dempsey to take a risk on.

Gotcha

The match is open to ANY PROMOTER who can handle the arrangements and who can bring Wills and myself together in the ring.

If Tex Rickard or ANY OTHER RESPONSIBLE PROMOTER CAN GET THE NECESSARY SIGNATURES FIRST, THEN HE WILL LAND THE BOUT.

Looks like Dempsey trashed your defense. What's the next excuse?



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That was in 1925. We know he went on to sign with a promoter. So obviously he was willing to fight for more than Rickard. You can't even argue that he changed his mind because I also have a statement from him saying that he is open to bids from anyone interested for a fight with Wills to take place in 1927.

I want every one that is interested to know that I am open for bids for a Wills bout to take place no later than Jan. 1, 1927.

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Your Rickard defense doesn't fly, buddy.


And isn't it true that in 1922, Rickard, whom you keep saying is the only one who was allowed to go near this bout, makes it clear that at one particular point in time, Dempsey was pricing himself out of a Wills fight, to the point that Rickard had to wonder if he sincerely wanted to fight Wills? Come on, man. All of this stuff is not coincidence or a perfect storm.

But honestly, the more I try to make you see this, the more sad it makes me. I can tell the dude is your hero and you want to defend him to the death any way you can. I take no pleasure in tarnishing idols or damaging your perception of Dempsey that you obviously hold so dear. No one likes to accept anything "bad" about their heroes. I get it. But there is always another side. And when we protect our heroes, sometimes the victims get lost in the mix. Just pay Harry WIlls his respect and let it go. The reality of what happened is obvious. You tarnish his legacy by not accepting the truth. I do hope that someday you will pay proper homage to Mr. Wills and accept what took place. We are men after all.

[Willie Pep 229]

Gotcha




Looks like Dempsey trashed your defense. What's the next excuse?



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That was in 1925. We know he went on to sign with a promoter. So obviously he was willing to fight for more than Rickard. You can't even argue that he changed his mind because I also have a statement from him saying that he is open to bids from anyone interested for a fight with Wills to take place in 1927.




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Your Rickard defense doesn't fly, buddy.


And isn't it true that in 1922, Rickard, whom you keep saying is the only one who was allowed to go near this bout, makes it clear that at one particular point in time, Dempsey was pricing himself out of a Wills fight, to the point that Rickard had to wonder if he sincerely wanted to fight Wills? Come on, man. All of this stuff is not coincidence or a perfect storm.

But honestly, the more I try to make you see this, the more sad it makes me. I can tell the dude is your hero and you want to defend him to the death any way you can. I take no pleasure in tarnishing idols or damaging your perception of Dempsey that you obviously hold so dear. No one likes to accept anything "bad" about their heroes. I get it. But there is always another side. And when we protect our heroes, sometimes the victims get lost in the mix. Just pay Harry WIlls his respect and let it go. The reality of what happened is obvious. You tarnish his legacy by not accepting the truth. I do hope that someday you will pay proper homage to Mr. Wills and accept what took place. We are men after all.

No!

Rickard had offered Kearns a lower guarantee and a percentage for the Carpentier fight. Kearns refused and demanded 300k up front and no percentage - after the fight was over the press did the math and Kearns left over 100 plus K on the table that went into Rickard's pocket not Dempsey's.

The press actually attacked Kearns with the exact figure in the newspapers (which was something like 427k) and Kearns looked the fool. Plus you know people were whispering in Dempsey's ear that his guy left over 100k on the table. And you know Rickard was the loudest whisper.

Kearns countered his humiliation by announcing that Dempsey was worth a 500k guarantee and he wouldn't take less.

The article you posted is Rickard saying Kearns is pricing Dempsey out if the market. Kearns is trying to save face for his Carpentier screw up. Dempsey was surely watching both and would turn on Kearns when he Fs up the Shebly fight.

You call me blind but you refuse to see that Wills isn't the issue in that article - it is Rickard and Kearns going at it in the newspapers.

[travestyny]

No!

Rickard had offered Kearns a lower guarantee and a percentage for the Carpentier fight. Kearns refused and demanded 300k up front and no percentage - after the fight was over the press did the math and Kearns left over 100 plus K on the table that went into Rickard's pocket not Dempsey's.

The press actually attacked Kearns with the exact figure in the newspapers (which was something like 427k) and Kearns looked the fool. Plus you know people were whispering in Dempsey's ear that his guy left over 100k on the table. And you know Rickard was the loudest whisper.

Kearns countered his humiliation by announcing that Dempsey was worth a 500k guarantee and he wouldn't take less.

The article you posted is Rickard saying Kearns is pricing Dempsey out if the market. Kearns is trying to save face for his Carpentier screw up. Dempsey was surely watching both and would turn on Kearns when he Fs up the Shebly fight.

You call me blind but you refuse to see that Wills isn't the issue in that article - it is Rickard and Kearns going at it in the newspapers.

What the hell is the reason for all of this. I don't need you to reach into their minds on some back to the future type shlt. The man is quoted or reported on as saying the pertinent information. Nothing you've said above changes what was said. If he meant Kearns, he would have probably said Kearns. I've seen him talk about Kearns or "Dempsey's manager" before. It's not like he was afraid to say what he meant.

Don't try hiding behind Kearns now. It's always someone else's fault. Even when Dempsey breaks a contract, that was somehow someone else's fault. lol. You mentioned nothing about Dempsey himself saying he would fight for any promoter. Not only that. But saying the one that gets his signature will get the fight. Just stop it already. It's time for you to stop pulling out all of these silly excuses and let it go. And by let it go, I mean come to grips with the reality that Dempsey ducked Wills.

[Willie Pep 229]

What the hell is the reason for all of this. I don't need you to reach into their minds on some back to the future type shlt. The man is quoted or reported on as saying the pertinent information. Nothing you've said above changes what was said. If he meant Kearns, he would have probably said Kearns. I've seen him talk about Kearns or "Dempsey's manager" before. It's not like he was afraid to say what he meant.

Don't try hiding behind Kearns now. You mentioned nothing about Dempsey himself saying he would fight for any promoter. Just stop it already.

But Dempsey didn't fight for any promoter he fought for Rickard and his friend Fitz once that's all that counts. The reality counts not the rhetorical nonsenses.

Why do you think that every PR announcement by a fighter is gospel? 70 years from now will someone like you be quoting Tyson and arguing 'see this is what really happened'

As far as reading pass the literal you need to learn how to learn history. That was a Rickard - Kearns dispute you posted. Learn the backstories so you can move pass the literal and see the mechanics at work.

Wills was a pawn who not only got used but abused.

You should stop already!