Until I Did My Own Research...

[Willie Pep 229]

He didn't break it by public announcement through the newspapers. He was contractually bound to have an insurance company come and check him out and he declined by writing a letter to the promoters saying, "Stop kidding yourselves. You have no contract and I'm too busy training for Tunney." That's when the contract was officially broken.

I think moreso than Fitz whispering something, Rickard was whispering something in his ear. Remember, Rickard said this at the time that the Wills fight was signed:



Let's say Fitz and Rickard were a part of it. What's the point? Dempsey still broke a valid contract of his own accord. Remember, he claimed that he was owed $125,000 on March 13th. That was the very day he signed the new contract. It doesn't take a genius to know that if you are owed $125,000, you don't accept $10 to bind you to a contract instead. Fitz is on record saying he and Dempsey were happy with the contract. Then later, you have Dempsey saying that the contract was void because Fitz bounced a check to him months before. A newly signed contract is void because of something that happened previously? IT MAKES NO SENSE, and the court agreed that it made no sense. If there was no contract to transfer over, then what the hell did you sign, Mr. Dempsey????

With all due respect, I wish you would stop treating Dempsey like a mindless puppy dog. It is impossible that he bears no blame for breaking this contract. You can't just keep blaming everyone else: Kearns, Rickard, you even tried to blame Wills, and now Fitz.....when the common denominator is Dempsey. If he wanted this fight, it was there for him to have with a valid contract that was followed perfectly by the promoter.


Finally, Dempsey himself said that after the Tunney fight, he would DEMAND the Wills fight. Well now you want to demand it....but not in 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26? They played these games with Wills for years. I get that you're on Dempsey's payroll, but come on man. Stop with all the excuses. The man didn't want this fight.



I don't see how adding Fitz to the caper absolves Dempsey. At this point you should just admit that you are biased and trying to find a way to shift blame from Dempsey. The court clearly states who broke this contract. It wasn't Kearns, Rickard, Fitz, or Wills. It was Dempsey.

You don't want to see it . . . no smart fighter makes his own decisions what's the point of giving up a percentage if you don't take the advise?

Yes and Dempsey's "letter" was reported in the newspapers. Later on the judge pointed out to the plaintiff that it was publically known and they should not have proceeded promoting the fight (which they did anyway) and refuse them compensation after the public announcement.

Dempsey only avoided/ducked/ didnt fight Wills in 1922 and1926.

Dempsey was tied to Rickard for his first defense (Brennan) and then fought forr his buddy Fitzsimmons (Misk) and then Rickard pulled off the first modern promoted HW Championship fight (Carpentier) for a million dollars -- It is unreasonable to argue that Dempsey should have walked away from Carpentier.

Only then in '22 was Dempsey available for Wills. The fight should have taken place in '22 - but we now know by 20-20 hindsight that Wills was finished by '26.

In 1923 I have said over a half a dozen times Kearns went west (to Shelby) to avoid Rickard. Tammany wouldn't let Kearns have the Willls fight out west.

Dempsey ducked/avoided no one in 1924 and 1925. He didn't intend to fight.

In regards to your wish NO! -- I told you you are on a crusade to discredit Dempsey so just go ahead and consider me the Muslims and Dempsey the Holy City. It shall be defended. Lol

[travestyny]

You don't want to see it . . . no smart fighter makes his own decisions what's the point of giving up a percentage if you don't take the advise?

Yes and Dempsey's "letter" was reported in the newspapers. Later on the judge pointed out to the plaintiff that it was publically known and they should not have proceeded promoting the fight (which they did anyway) and refuse them compensation after the public announcement.

What is there to see? We shouldn't be discussing giving up percentages when he gave up money. The Wills fight was for more money than the Tunney fight.

And what is the point about it becoming publicly known? The letter was made known to the promoters first obviously. It's not like Dempsey sent the letter to the public.

Dempsey only avoided/ducked/ didnt fight Wills in 1922 and1926.

Dempsey was tied to Rickard for his first defense (Brennan) and then fought forr his buddy Fitzsimmons (Misk) and then Rickard pulled off the first modern promoted HW Championship fight (Carpentier) for a million dollars -- It is unreasonable to argue that Dempsey should have walked away from Carpentier.

Only then in '22 was Dempsey available for Wills. The fight should have taken place in '22 - but we now know by 20-20 hindsight that Wills was finished by '26.

In 1923 I have said over a half a dozen times Kearns went west (to Shelby) to avoid Rickard. Tammany wouldn't let Kearns have the Willls fight out west.

Dempsey ducked/avoided no one in 1924 and 1925. He didn't intend to fight.

In regards to your wish NO! -- I told you you are on a crusade to discredit Dempsey so just go ahead and consider me the Muslims and Dempsey the Holy City. It shall be defended. Lol

Well hey, once again, Dempsey HIMSELF says that Wills was THE ONLY MAN he wanted to fight since becoming champion. It seems that we agree that he avoided/ducked Wills, so what's the reason to keep going over it. It doesn't make him any less of a great fighter, but he ducked the man. I'm so ready to just leave it at that.


The point of this thread was to show that I was ready to be on board with you guys (or rather others) that there were financial reasons that this fight didn't take place. I had no bias in this situation. That's why I put my quotations in the first post that stated I was willing to accept that claim. But once I saw the evidence, it's clear that idea was incorrect. I've been more than fair to Dempsey with regards to this issue.

If the roles were reversed, we both know you would be saying that Wills ducked Dempsey. Hell...you made a thread claiming that Wills ducked Demspey but you didn't do enough research to know that Wills accepted the offer that was proposed and was jerked around yet again. They played games with this man for years. It's clear to see.

[travestyny]

More an more I think Floyd Fitzsimons is somehow connected to Dempsey breaching the 192 6 contract.

Fitzsimmons was whispering something in Dempsey's ear.

Here's something that you might find interesting.

Apparently in 1925 a Businessman who didn't want his name released to the public came forward and claimed that the original Fitz and Dempsey contract was a publicity stunt simply put on because the public was turning on Dempsey for not fighting Wills. Dempsey and his wife were to star in the movie, "Manhattan Madness," and to save the film (which apparently still bombed), Fitz and Dempsey decided to stage the signing. The businessman claims he had telegrams and letters to back up his claim. He said he was asked to lend his name as a financier of the fight, but told that he wouldn't have to actually give up any money.

https://pdfhost.io/v/upPfKr5X4_Fitz_...p_moviepdf.pdf

The movie producers had a lot of money in the movie and believed the movie was flopping because the public was convinced that Dempsey was afraid of Wills, so they asked Dempsey to do something about the Wills situation. So allegedly the signing was set up, and Wills was thrown $25,000 to shut him up for awhile.


What's also interesting is that Dempsey's publicity director quit (some articles insinuate that he was fired) around this time, also claiming that people on Dempsey's team (his lawyers) were working behind the scenes to invalidate Fitz contract. He didn't implicate Dempsey or Fitz in the scheme. What's odd is that Fitz is quoted as saying the publicity manager's assertion was bogus (could Fitz have said this because he was a part of it?). The publicity director, who was at one point considered Dempsey's right hand man and was also referred to as his manager, also claims that he had telegrams and letters that backed up his claim, and that would prevent Dempsey from fighting Tunney.

Could some of these characters have been in cahoots to make the public think that the Wills fight was signed while having no plans to actually stage the fight? The initial contract certainly seems a bit shady. But by the time it's sold to the Chicago Coliseum Club, if Fitz was part of some scheme, I don't know why they would think that they could get out of the contract with such a weak excuse like the previous contract was broke, so there was nothing to transfer over.

Anyway, here's a cool picture of Dempsey, Fitz in the middle, Wills, and the publicity director who quit (Rob Roy Benton) in the back left side.

[Willie Pep 229]

Good stuff T will reply in detail- want to reread first

[travestyny]

Good stuff T will reply in detail- want to reread first

It's all alleged. I'm not saying any of it is true so don't kill the messenger, but it's definitely interesting.